How to use H.F. Belt Sander?

Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
29
Greetings,
Glad to see all the feedback on my post, I thank you all. Now if you Gentlemen would tell me how to use the H.F. Belt Sander to sharpen my knives from beginning to end. The process I mean. Most of my knives are about 4'' long and of fairly good steel. All pocket folders and I like them shaving sharp..
Again the reason for this purchase is that I could not get the Lansky to work to my ratification!!!

I'm rather new to this Forum and I appreciate the help.

Thanks,
Eric
beakman3@aol.com
 
Describing how to sharpen with a belt sander is like describing how to drive an automobile: I can tell you but much of what I say won't make a lot of sense until you're actually doing it, and the easiest way to learn is to simply get started.

With the sander running, hold your knife with the edge facing in the direction of the belt's travel, then tilt the spine slightly until you have your desired angle between the edge and the belt -- basically, just like you'd sharpen on a stone, except with the edge trailing. Press the blade against the belt at its base and draw the entire length of the edge across it, being careful not to burn the tip. Repeat until you have a burr, then do the other side. Once that's done make one very light pass on the first side to knock the burr off and switch to a finer belt. Repeat until you're happy or you've gone all the way to the leather belt, then finish by hand if desired.

That's essentially it. There are some other things to consider, however:

Keep the metal moving. Even very fine belts will heat up your knife extremely quickly, particularly near the tip where there's less mass to disappate it. If you hold it in one spot for more than a few seconds you could very likely burn it. Along the same lines, keep a bucket of water handy and quench the blade after each pass. I also keep my bare fingers on the flat of the blade while sharpening, not only to steady it but also to feel the temperature of the steel. My fingers will burn long before the steel does.

Maintain a consistant angle. If you can't maintain a somewhat consistant angle you'll never get it sharp. This comes with practice. I personally think that it's easier to do this on a sander than on a hone but I have more experience with the sander.

Consider whether you want a convex edge or not. If you do, think about removing the platen to gain some more slack in the belt. You can play with the degree of slack by selecting which area of the belt to use. At the top and bottom where the pulleys are there will be less slack; in the middle, more. If you don't want to convex it I recommend leaving the platen in place.

Lee Valley has a good selection of belts. I keep belts in 40, 20, 15 and 9 micron grits, with the 40 micron being used to repair damage, the 20 to set the bevels and the 15 and 9 micron belts for establishing the edge. I also use a leather belt charged with LV's green compound for power stropping. Anything higher than 40 micron is probably unnecessary for general sharpening. A worn belt will tend to leave a smoother finish than a new one so don't immediately throw them out when they begin to lose their aggressiveness -- they still have their uses.

Finally, be safe. The belt sander is probably the second most dangerous tool that you'll ever own, with a buffer being the first. There are many things that can go wrong. Try to stand out of line with the grinder so that if it catches and throws the knife, it doesn't throw it at you. Keep your fingers away from the belt, particularly the edge of it. Gloves are up to you but I don't recommend them, as they hamper your ability to hold the blade, feel its temperature, and are also (IMO) likelier to be caught by the sander than bare skin. Wear eye protection and consider a dust mask, as this process throws a lot of abrasive and metal debris around that can't be good to breathe.

You may very well wreck the first knife or two that you sharpen this way so consider getting a few junkers to work on first, and go slowly -- it's a lot easier to take a bit more off than to put it back on again.

Once you get the hang of it you'll be going from dead dull to scary sharp in a matter of minutes, but resist the urge to go to the sander unless you absolutely must. A session on the belts necessarily removes a lot of metal and you don't want to be doing this all the time. It's still worth knowing how to sharpen by hand to extend the times between sessions on the sander.
 
Go to Knife Forums and check out Jerry Hossom's sharpening section. You will find everything there is to know. I would post a link but I'm still in the stone age with the 'puter stuff.
 
What Lanza said. Lots of old posts in the Hossom forum.

Dave Rishar summed up the process nicely. The most important advice he gave is to just do it, especially with some old beater knives. You can pick them up for less than a dollar at any Goodwill or Thrift store. I recommend removing the platen from the grinder and convexing the edge. It will then be very easy to maintain it for a long time just with stropping after every use. You should rarely need to reconvex or use the grinder if you strop frequently.

To avoid burning the blade just move it quickly and keep your ungloved fingers on the back of the blade. The blade will get very slightly warm but should never get even remotely hot. If it does you are moving the blade across the belt too slowly and possibly damaging the edge. That is what practicing on the cheap thrift store knives will teach you.

Practice holding different angles on the belts until you can get the type of edge you like. That is what you will learn on the beater knives. No amount of explanations will teach you as much as just doing it. Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

Alex
 
A belt sander is just an abrasive which moves instead of you so it is easier to hold an angle as you are not pushing or pulling the blade away from you just moving it from side to side. It is also way faster than hand honing because the belt turns many times faster than a person could move a blade on a stone for any length of time. Basically every second the blade is exposed to the belts it has taken about a hundred passes on a stone of similar grit. They are great for reshaping edges but for actual sharpening they take far too much metal off of edges and vastly reduce the lifetime of blades.

The only significant concern is the frictional heat and that is not really an issue except in extreme profiles which are not found on any production and even rare in custom cutlery. You need very small and thin blades with really thin and acute edges so there is no heat sink. By this I don't mean the standard 0.025"/15 degree edges, I mean edges which are less than half as thick and half as obtuse and the knives are really small and on really hard to grind steel or are on steels with almost no temper resistance like 1095.

The real issue of danger is that breathing lots of steel dust isn't overly healthy and some of the alloys in modern steels like vanadium are really not good for you. You should take steps to ensure your health and the health of those living with you.

... with the edge trailing.

Concerns about the edge catching? I sharpen edge into for the same reason I do on bench stones, burr minimization, You can get crisp edges which shave at 80/100 grit right off the belt and the edge retention these have for slicing is extreme. You take a 100 grit SAK and a 1000 grit S30V custom to some cardboard or rope and the SAK will outcut and outlast it many times to one.

You can play with the degree of slack by selecting which area of the belt to use.

And the force applied. However with the platen, working in the middle even under very light force produces far too much of a curvature for me and makes the edge too obtuse. When I regrind large knives I use the platen to hack off the shoulder and only then use the slack region to add 1-2 degrees to the apex and have to go really light or otherwise it gets too obtuse. What kind of angles are you aiming for generally on large blades?

A worn belt will tend to leave a smoother finish than a new one so don't immediately throw them out when they begin to lose their aggressiveness -- they still have their uses.

I think this is likely one of the causes of overheating. Worn belts are like loaded/worn stones, they really are not efficient to sharpen because they generate a lot of heat and pressure and not much abrasion which can make people lean harder to compensate. I recycle them in what they are used to cut. When a belt doesn't want to cut D2 much anymore then I just use it on 1095. When it won't cut steel much any more then I use it on the softer metals of the guards, then later still on woods to reshape handles and finally most of them end up being cut and glued onto wood to make scrapers for removing rust/paint from metal railings / concrete etc. .

-Cliff
 
Sorry, Cliff. I must take exception to sharpening edge into belt. This can be dangerous, and is not recommended! Always use edge trailing on a power tool!
Bill
 
Concerns about the edge catching?

Big time. I'm often working with khukuris, swords, and axes on the sander. I do not want one of these getting away from me; nor do I want the belt to part. I have a healthy fear of both.

However with the platen, working in the middle even under very light force produces far too much of a curvature for me and makes the edge too obtuse.

When I did those Olfa blades for the WGS exercise I sharpened them on my belt sander without the platen. I'm not sure how much curvature I introduced as I don't normally eyeball it but merely test the edge to see how it performs; if it still works with more curvature than I wanted, I don't worry about it. It can be done with care.

As I said, I'm generally sharpening larger blades that will see hard use. A somewhat more obtuse edge may be an advantage in this case. This hardly helps the original poster but it can be done with smaller blades. I tend to err on the cautious side if anything. If the edge is a bit too obtuse it will still work and I can always fix it later; if I go too thin, it may fail catastrophically and while this can still be fixed, it does me no good at the time and more stock will have to be removed to repair it.

I think this is likely one of the causes of overheating. Worn belts are like loaded/worn stones, they really are not efficient to sharpen because they generate a lot of heat and pressure and not much abrasion which can make people lean harder to compensate. I recycle them in what they are used to cut. When a belt doesn't want to cut D2 much anymore then I just use it on 1095. When it won't cut steel much any more then I use it on the softer metals of the guards, then later still on woods to reshape handles and finally most of them end up being cut and glued onto wood to make scrapers for removing rust/paint from metal railings / concrete etc. .

Interesting. I typically use worn 9 micron belts to bridge the gap between fresh 9 micron belts and the leather belt, as there's quite a gap in grit size between the two. Sometimes I'll apply chromium oxide to the worn belt to increase its effectiveness. While I can see your point, I disagree that a worn belt will generate as much heat as a fresh one for a given level of pressure. The key may be to stay patient and not increase the force applied despite the reduced aggressiveness.
 
Big time.

I have never had this happen. I am not doubting that it could, but either it is severly unlikely or I am really lucky. I don't actually consider it that dangerous compared to things like table saws, entire family is carpenters and lots of stubby fingers around. It is also way more dangerous to use larger knives than sharpen them anyway and in general I am far more likely to get killed in a car accident anyway.

... as there's quite a gap in grit size between the two.

Why not just load the leather with a finer compounds, there are many grits available between 10 and 1 micron.

I disagree that a worn belt will generate as much heat as a fresh one for a given level of pressure.

In the limit that the belt has no abrasion it is obvious that all it does it generate frictional heat on the blade. The lower the level of abrasion the greater the frictional heat. The key point though as you noted is not to lean into worn or even finer grit belts. If there is any issue with lack of cutting ability then get a new belt, get a more coarse grit or just do more passes.

-Cliff
 
I've had pieces of steel and wood go flying on me with bench grinders and drill presses. While I'm not as worried with this sander, as it isn't a very strong motor, and a knife handle is a lot easier to hang onto than some of the small pieces I've had trouble with before-I would still not recommend someone new to such a tool, or power tools in general, to sharpen edge in.

I would hope that I could hang onto the handle if the tip caught and just split the belt/bind the motor/slip the hell out of the drive wheel rather than have the blade get yanked out of my hand, bounce off the deck and embed itself someplace painful, but it's a risky proposition.
 
Cliff, can you descibe how you know when to quit on the belts to use the 100 grit finish straight from the sander?

Also, has anyone used the diamond pastes in the micron and sub micron sizes? I've been curious how well they work, but have put off buying any until I need a new leather belt. The old one is covered in the white compound I use now, and I assume I would have to remove it all before putting on new compound. If there is a significant advantage, then I may go to the trouble of removing the old compound.
 
Cliff, can you descibe how you know when to quit on the belts to use the 100 grit finish straight from the sander?

Nothing in particular. I usually only use the belt sander when I am honing very acute edges because they get so wide benchstones are too inefficient plus a lot of my knives are either made of very high carbide steels or just really large so bringing back a 1/4" wide edge takes time even with a 80 grit belt. I find it amazing that people are using 300+ grit belts for edge shaping, I find the 80 is even too slow and would use 40's if I could buy them.

Anyway when I can no longer see the secondary bevel I know that it only takes a few more passes to form the edge itself depending on the steel. Plus it is kind of obvious that this happens because when the angle is about ten degrees and the grit that low the finish is so coarse the micro-serrations are not really micro anymore. I have done cutting trials with a D2 custom with that kind of edge and you can cut just absurd amount of hemp rope before you exceed 20 lbs on a two inch draw. You can also just cut into the edge with a stone before sharpening and thus when it form again on the sander you know you are done. This is generally a good idea for burr minimization anyway.

Just like with benchstones, I also find typical low alloy carbon steels like 52100 will form clean as long as they are fairly hard. Machetes and such tend to form large burrs that you can see, often due to the initial state of the edge which is burned or heavily fatigued steel anyway. I just lightly scrub the edge with a 200 grit silicon carbide stone and microbevel with a 600/1200 DMT to finish.

The old one is covered in the white compound I use now, and I assume I would have to remove it all before putting on new compound.

All abrasives are a mix of sizes, and many have different types. The common green buffing compound is chromium/aluminum oxide. I have used the diamond paste a little and intended to do a more comprehensive examination of it but I misplaced it. Lots of people have discussed use of the harder buffing compounds, Thom for example has praised boron carbide.

-Cliff
 
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