How tough is ELMAX compare to CPM-3V

[shqxk]

What if we compare both steel on toughness and edge durability wise?

I'm not talking about theory base opinion, I would like to know the real world experience from the maker who ever worked with both steel.

Thanks

 

[jdm61]

Elmax is supposed to be pretty tough for higher alloy stainless. You didn't say what hardness level. That is important with Elmax because by many accounts, it is a totally different (and most would argue better) steel when left at hardness levels above 60Rc. Likewise, research/testing by some folks on here and other places have indicated that 3V can retain its relative toughness and/or edge stability at higher hardness levels than ""factory specs" when heat treated using the lower temperature tempering method. Another PM stainless steel that gets talked about as being "tougher" is CPM154, albeit with less abrasion resistance than its Crucible brethren, CPM S30V and CPM S35VN.

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

Elmax is very tough for a stainless and holds an edge better in soft abrasive materials like leather or cardboard. It would make the better skinning knife. 3V is tougher and, with the right HT, has better edge durability too and holds an edge better both in rough use and in less abrasive materials like chopping wood. 3V can have very good edge stability but this is dependent on heat treat.

Elmax is tough like a simple steel rather than a stainless. But there are very few cutlery steels tougher than 3V, it's in a different league.

edit: I don't know how tough either of them are in terms of energy absorbed in an impact, but in my own durability tests, 3V shows about 1/5th the damage of Elmax at the same hardness and geometry in impacts with hard materials.

 

[jdm61]

Emphasis on Nate's comment about CUTLERY steels. Sure, S7 can be made into a serviceable and EXTREMELY tough knife. A few guys use it, but it would not be my first choice. What we have seen with his experimentation is that you probably don't have the performance drop with 3V when you harden it up a bit like you do using the "normal" HT regimen. The charts say that 3V done the regular way has twice the impact resistance at 58Rc as A2 at 60Rc, but only about 25-30% more when you take it up to 60Rc. It would appear that Nate is getting some different results with the low temp/cryo tempering method and that gap has widened once again. Other folks who have experimented with "simple" steels, AEB-L and 52100 in particular, like Roman Landes, Hoss and Kevin Cashen, appear to have discovered that they do some really cool and useful things when you play around with them. 52100 apparently not only holds a crazy fine and stable edge, but is also quite tough when you drop the austenizing temp down to 1475 instead of the normal 1500-1550 you might use if you were making ball bearings with big, abrasion resistant chromium carbides.

 

[shqxk]

Thanks to both you, jdm/Nathan

I think I would do the direct cryo right from quench and low tempering on ELMAX too. Aim HRC is 61.5

 

[jdm61]

I have heard people say very nice things about Elmax at 60+ and a few say slightly less nice things about factory folders left at say 58-59. My only experience was with a ZT folder that I had for a little while and I didn't use it enough to really form an opinion.

Thanks to both you, jdm/Nathan

I think I would do the direct cryo right from quench and low tempering on ELMAX too. Aim HRC is 61.5