How well do Kydex or Concealex take impact?

T

Tok

Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
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Anyone has any experience with a sheath made of Kydex/Concealex dropped on concrete, or taken certain impact while carrying it (like fell down on the floor or smashed to a wall with the sheath being one point of getting the impact). How well are those material taking impacts like these?
 
My experience has been they are very tough with regards to impact but you have to watch leaving them in a hot car (summertime hot)as they will sometimes deform slightly.
 
Hey Tok....

All depends on the impact.. I've broken one personally, which was a fluke. It cracked at a screw hole.

I've had a couple clips break due to falls...

My cold weather tests seem to differ a little from Cliff's Needless to say I probably wasn't as abusive as Cliff's tests were.

I did manage to fracture the face of one after driving over it with the truck.

You can break anything if you try hard enough...

ttyle

Eric...
 
Yeah, it was really abusive, being one fall from about three feet for the above break. That kind of impact could obviously never happen in "real life". Specifically I tossed it a few feet infront of me onto a concrete floor. Of course if you drove over it this isn't an impact as cars/trucks normally have rubber tires, this would be a slow deformation load which would act to try and deform the kydex, not induce brittle fracture, leather would take that without harm.

Note none of the manufactures whose Kydex I described breaking claimed such results were not to be expected, I asked them all. You can also find other such reports without great difficultly from other makers and users. Leather is *far* more impact and temperature resistant (but gets cuts easier). But again, Andrew Lynch makes a very tough laminate Kydex if you are looking for a rugged custom. For leather there are lots of guys, Chas Clements probably makes the toughest leather sheaths, they are also laminated, his level of artistic detail is also extreme.

Also Kydex varies in toughness depending on construction and thickness, the Machax sheath broke a lot easier than the TOPS one, which broke easier than the one from Busse Combat. But in general even the best I have seen don't react well to extreme cold. The sheath on my Battle Mistress suffered stress cracks from winter use just from being exposed to the cold, I don't even remember it hitting anything. But again,
Andrew's probably would, but calling them Kydex is really misleading, as they have little in resemblence to plain kydex. Comparing his sheaths to a plain kydex is like comparing a Busse Combat INFI knife to an Alanta Cutlery 420J2 stainless. Yeah they are both steel knives, but the difference ends there.

-Cliff
 
Hey Cliff...

I forgot I was talking to a professor of physics. Forgive me...

Never did I say that it couldn't, wouldn't happen.. Again if you try hard enough,, you can break anything..

My sheaths are used all over the world, from the coldest climates to the hottest. Out of the literally thousands of sheaths I've made, from Busse's, Striders, Fallknivens, and everything inbetween, I have had none come back, nor have I heard of any complaints of cracking or malfunction due to extreme cold... Maybe it's just ALOT colder in NS...

I've personally worn the same sheath on several of my knives including a Battle Mistress E on hunting trips, camping trips, and survival outings for the last 3-4 years.. Other than some normal wear and tear, theres nothing functionally wrong with any of them.

To my knowledge you haven't tested any of my sheaths Cliff, however we all know what the outcome of that test would be.

Utter Failure!

In all honesty though I haven't thrown myself off any cliffs, fell out of any trees, or slipped on any banana peels in my outdoors adventures.


Cliff scribbles :

"Leather is *far* more impact and temperature resistant"

Really! Excellent observation Cliff.


Cliff Scribbles Again:

"The sheath on my Battle Mistress suffered stress cracks from winter use just from being exposed to the cold, I don't even remember it hitting anything."

Personally Cliff...

I think your full of crap...

The sheath shivered itself into cracking. Again it's that severe cold NS climate.

I'd like to hear from some other sheath makers such as Mike Sastre, Robert H., Buy Brown, and others who are the experts in the field of sheaths.. Lets get some honest results from them, not some Mickey Mouse experiments.

The reason Andrews sheaths work so well is that the Kevlar acts as a buffer zone and absorbs the shock of the blunt force trauma. It's a Great inovation in sheaths and wish I had thought of it.

Now go out and play Cliff...


Eric....
 
I've had real good experiences with Kydex/Concealex sheaths. The hardest uses have been the ones attached to my PFD's. They've been dragged, tossed and thrashed in whitewater with no failures.
Stay Safe,
Clyde
 
I have had sheaths made by Eric and River City and all have been great, no problems at all! The fit one gets with Kydex is unbelievable and that is what I like plus the great workmanship from both of the above.
 
Zero problems with sheaths from Eric, Okuden and Brix Tactical - and all of them have taken quite hard hits, even in cold weather.

Bo Hansen
 
Eric,

:) You've been around long enough to know the futility of arguing with the "self-annointed" experts. Bottom line: if the water was no good, there wouldn't be a line at the well. 'Nuff said.

Good to see you again in Novi, and get the chance to meet your better half. Much better looking than you! Take care, Bro'.
 
I can't speak to the effects of temperature, and fortunately, I can't speak to the effects of impact (yet), but personally I have found kydex preferable to leather in a sandy environment. Leather sheaths trap sand which, in turn, scratches the blade. With kydex, it's much easier to knock (or rinse) the sand out. I wonder if the good men and women serving overseas agree, or perhaps prefer another alternative, e.g., nylon?

- Rob M.
 
Hey Mike.....

Yaaa I know Bud.. It's a waste of time....

Yes,, was Great seeing you again.. I just wish I had more time to actually sit down and talk..
It's been a crazy couple of months.. Hopefully next year we can spend the afternoon chatting and coming up with a plan to take over the Sheathing industry..:)

Always a pleasure Mike, and that Southern Comfort rig of yours is awesome..
The Best way in my opinion to carry a large fixed for SD....

Take care dude...


Loodieboy

Each type of sheaths has it's good points and bad.. Not one sheath will do the job for everyone's purpose..

Leather has it strong points,,soft warm and traditional, but not good in wet conditions

Synthetics,, Great in wet, hard use conditions,,holds up well in most circumstances, can be used in a myriad of ways, but not good in direct hardcore sunlight.

Hybrids, Great in harse wet conditions, more flexible and forgiving than straight synthetics, however limited to what can be done with them, and unless they have custom fit inserts can be sloppy and knife has to be strapped in place.

It's all a matter of choice and what you need to do the job.. Pick the right sheath for the job and it's intended purpose and you will be fine...

ttyle

Eric....

Eric....
 
I have several of Eric's sheaths. I recently (this winter) carried one on me all winter. I wanted to test a knife out real hard. I literally beat the hell out of it, and nothing happened. I hit it with the a hammer, both the face and the claws, to see what would happen. The claws left a little mark, but that was it. The temperature outside was well below zero. I have thrown the knife while it was in its sheath 40 feet across our shop at work, and let it drop on the concrete, nothing happened to the sheath, although the micarta handle chipped a little. Concealex is tough enough for me.
Kyle Fuglesten
 
I had a Marine Lance-corporal send his M30 Battleguard back to me AS A GIFT!. Seems that while on an EOD demolition mission, the charge went off prematurely and he was hit on the butt with shrapnel. The only damage was a deep chip out of the micarta handle and the loss of a good chunk from the sheath but he credits the knife and sheath as "having saved my ass!" I made him a folder in return, still have the M30 in my shop and thank goodness he was not facing the other way around!. BOB
 
I can only speak from my personal experiences, but I have a lot of kydex and concelex sheathed knives. I have never had any problems with any of them failing or breaking. I have a concelex sheath from Mike @ RiverCitySheaths and it has seen frozen hell with no problems.
Mention was also made of the kydex/kevlar sheaths that Andrew makes. I bought one of those for my Busse BM. It is a tank of a sheath. You lose some of the nice trimmness associated with kydex, but you gain the ruggedest sheathing system I have ever encountered. :eek:
All of that rambling is my way of saying that the average man can expect a kydex sheath to give him years of flawless usage. YMMV :D
 
Normark said:
[laminate kydex / kevlar]

The reason Andrews sheaths work so well is that the Kevlar acts as a buffer zone and absorbs the shock of the blunt force trauma.
Click to expand...

Thick leather on the *outside* would work better for being a direct buffer and absorbing the impact, by deforming and thus slowing down the time of impact and thus lowering the impulse to the Kydex.

An internal laminate would not prevent the outside Kydex from seeing a huge stress, and thus could not directly absorb the impact which would still hit the Kydex quite readily.

Of course a highly elastic and strong liner would act to keep the Kydex from exceeding its plastic region (give it more ductility using the term loosely) and / or keep the material together even when cracked assuming the internal laminate was more elastic. It would also absorb some of the energy through internal deformation as well.

Simply consider taping a few pieces of duct tape to the back of your hand and then catching a very fast baseball. The tape doesn't buffer a lot of the impact as you hypothesized (nothing significant), but it would act to keep your hand somewhat rigid even if the bones were broken. In the same senario a leather pad outside of your hand would work *much* better for absorbing the impact, hence the design of the normal baseball glove.

Leather / Kydex laminates are probably more durable overall, but you still have the rot issue. In any case there are lots of alternatives to address the problem with simply Kydex which are being explored by various sheath makers currently.


It's a Great inovation in sheaths and wish I had thought of it.
Click to expand...

It came about because Carl Theile had problems with Kydex and impacts when cold, realized it was a weakness and limitation of said material and then moved on to directly address said issues by creating laminate sheaths, the prototype with Andrew being a hell of a first step.

It is always through recognition of the limitations and drawbacks to products that they advance. For those interested Carl has made several kinds of laminates, using Kevlar, leather and simply laminated Kydex.

I recently broke several more Kydex sheaths, and put up a short webpage containing said info, links to older work, references to similar breaks and other testing done by Carl, his laminate work and other alternatives to heavy use sheaths such as leather and canvas laminates.

Ref :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2572100


In any case, the problem of Kydex and impacts when cold has been around for some time, I noted it a few years ago, and other makers were aware of it when I first mentioned it. It is nice to see sheath makers realize the limitations and move past it. Carl is certainly doing some solid work. Anyone looking at fine leather should also take some time to look at what Chas has done.

-Cliff
 
I've used Kydex at 0F with no problems, and have even used a Kydex sheath as a temporary spacer at those temps at work. Pressure and impacts at 0F didn't bother it any, which leaves me confused as to where Cliff's Kydex got broken... :confused:
 
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