How would you classify this sword

David Stifle

David Stifle

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Nov 20, 2008
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Sorry fellas, but I'm having trouble deciding what style of sword this is, it's not a saber or rapier, what do you say?
 

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I'd say saber, rather than rapier. It reminds me of the sword of John Carter or Mars (I think the original design is from Jody Samson).
 
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I thought saber too, but the blade is rather delicate for a saber, at least, in my opinion. I think it's an exquisite sword though, I like it a lot.
 
That's the Jody Sampson "Frazetta Martian Longsword," the limited edition model.

http://filmswords.com/frazetta/martian-longsword.htm

While it's a fantasy weapon, I'd consider it a saber-type blade because of the single edge and curvature. Historical dueling sabers were even narrower in blade profile, while still retaining both point, true and false edge.
 
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thanks guys, guess that mystery is solved. I didn't know it was a fantasy sword, although I did, and do, like the basket guard. I also didn't know sabers could be so narrow and delicate, I've always pictured a saber as a sword a calvary man would use. Anyway, thanks for clearing up my confusion.
 
Yup--it's a saber. Sabers are a broad class and can even have straight blades depending on the style. It seems as though being classified as one is mostly reliant on the presence of one or more features out of a range associated with the class.
 
It's a single edged slighty curved blade with a pronounced curvature at the tip. The guard is a vaguely bell guard with some interesting projections. In my opinion this makes it more saber than rapier. Rapiers were typically double edged with no curvature and a flattened diamond or ovoid cross section, usually with a complex hilt.

This piece has been noted is pure fantasy based upon a paperback novel cover, to my knowledge there was never anything like it historically. For all that it's a very neat piece. The two I've handled were very nice in terms of fit and finish.
 
I agree the best classification for this blade is saber. My question now, and especially to Triton since he's handled this sword, is do you guys think this design could actually be practical and functional; in other words, could you really fight with it? The tip looks very slender and breakable, although I realize with a good heat treatment it could be tough as nails.

The reason I am interested in the functionality of this sword as a fightingting blade is I have finished a 24" single hand saber, it balances approx. 6" in front of the guard, but still feels fairly blade heavy. I am thinking of narrowing the blade and if I do, it would slightly resemble the Frazetta blade.Where do you guys think the POB should be on a two foot single hand saber?
 
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David Stifle said:
I agree the best classification for this blade is saber. My question now, and especially to Triton since he's handled this sword, is do you guys think this design could actually be practical and functional; in other words, could you really fight with it? The tip looks very slender and breakable, although I realize with a good heat treatment it could be tough as nails.

The reason I am interested in the functionality of this sword as a fightingting blade is I have finished a 24" single hand saber, it balances approx. 6" in front of the guard, but still feels fairly blade heavy. I am thinking of narrowing the blade and if I do, it would slightly resemble the Frazetta blade.Where do you guys think the POB should be on a two foot single hand saber?
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There's a lot of variables there. In the case of John Carter of Mars, as I recall the denizens of the red planet mostly ran about with very little on with the exception weapons harnesses and jewelry in the case of Deja Thoris. Something about the heat and selling more Warlord of Mars novels to teenage earthlings... :) In a case where your opponent would be wearing very little in the way of defensive armor I think the sword would be just fine for fencing style combat with a proper heat treatment although the Jody Samson version is balanced a little funny for that.

I wouldn't particularly think that it is suited for use as a cavalry weapon since those are usually a bit blade heavy. I wouldn't want to use it against an armored opponent because as you say the tip is a bit fragile.

In your case, it depends on what you / the customer are trying to achieve. Most knowledgeable modern customers are going to want you to pull that balance point back a bit say something around 3 inches from the guard, assuming they want a "lively" sword. You can do that by either removing metal from the blade, adding weight to the pommel or some combination thereof.

It's been my experience that at least historically speaking cavalry sabers are NOT "lively" since you are using the momentum of the horse to help you with your cut and you want a heavy chopping blade for laying into the infantry / peasantry.

Interestingly, Basil Rathbone and Errol Flynn to the contrary rapiers aren't "lively" either, being designed as a thrusting rather than a cutting weapon.

I'm not sure I've helped...
 
Thanks Triton,

I'm not really interested in skewering Martians, although that sounds like fun, haha. And for this go round, I'm not interested in making a calvary saber, but rather I'm looking to make a one hand dueling style of saber. It's not bad as it is, weighing around 2 lbs, 4 ounces. As you said, bringing the balance point back would probably help, I think I'll probably narrow the blade a bit. The point will be still much more robust than the Frazetta sword though. I'll be playing around with it for a week or so, but will post pictures of it in the near future. It was some unusal features I think you guys will like.

On a side note: I had the chance to handle an 1840's calvary saber, basket hilt, 36" blade. For some reason I haven't yet figured out, it seemed as light as a feather,had perfect balance, and was very lively. The blade at the guard was around a quarter of an inch, distinct distal grind with a wide fuller. I was so impressed I went home and made one, which is still on the bench, and one I'm looking forward to finishing.
 
HEAVY distal taper is pretty typical on infantry sabers, and the fullers often run very deep. I own an American NCO's naval cutlass from about 1780 and it's VERY lively sword and about as thin as the tip of a Victorinox/Forschner chef's knife at the point and starts with the spine about 1/4" thick at the base with a flat grind and heavy fuller that runs close to the spine, reducing the overall weight quite a bit but with good rigidity and bringing the balance close to the hand.
 
Yup, that sounds exactly like the sword I was talking about. Hope the one I made works out as well.
 
For the record, when you say the saber is 24" are you talking a 24" blade or 24" OAL? That itself will make a big difference in what I'd be looking for in handling characteristics.
 
David Stifle said:
Thanks Triton,

I'm not really interested in skewering Martians, although that sounds like fun, haha. And for this go round, I'm not interested in making a calvary saber, but rather I'm looking to make a one hand dueling style of saber. It's not bad as it is, weighing around 2 lbs, 4 ounces. As you said, bringing the balance point back would probably help, I think I'll probably narrow the blade a bit. The point will be still much more robust than the Frazetta sword though. I'll be playing around with it for a week or so, but will post pictures of it in the near future. It was some unusal features I think you guys will like.

On a side note: I had the chance to handle an 1840's calvary saber, basket hilt, 36" blade. For some reason I haven't yet figured out, it seemed as light as a feather,had perfect balance, and was very lively. The blade at the guard was around a quarter of an inch, distinct distal grind with a wide fuller. I was so impressed I went home and made one, which is still on the bench, and one I'm looking forward to finishing.
Click to expand...

I look forward to seeing what you have come up with.

That's interesting about the cavalry saber, that's counter to the examples of other cavalry swords (not of that type of sword in particular) that I have handled, but as they say there are exceptions to everything and you learn something new every day. :)
 
It's also worth noting that cavalry sabers (and sabers in general) varied by type, time, and intended usage. Heavy cavalry was used primarily in the charge and often had thrusting blades whilst the light cavalry was more often used in skirmishes and tended towards more maneuverable blades.
 
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