How's my setup?

[filedog]

How is this grit selection in your opinion? Anything I should replace or get rid of?
The setup seems to work pretty good, and I don't have any "super" steels.
grit numbers are approx., I know they're not really comparable, but it helps
me to know how they relate. The only real duplicate is the DMT fine and spyderco
med stones, do I need both?

Stones
Norton Crystolon coarse/fine 100/280
DMT coarse and fine plates 400/600
Spyderco med and fine ceramic stones 600/?
Leather strop with green compound

Steels
stainless kitchen knives
Swiss army knives
traditionals (carbon steel)
Aus 8, 14C28N, D2, VG10 pocket knives

 

[bmo419]

The DMT fine is actually more coarse than the Spyderco Medium in my experience, though I'm definitely no authority on the matter, I just own examples of and have used both. Looking at the unified grit chart pinned in this forum would appear to corroborate my experience with the two (DMT fine=25micron vs Spyderco med=15micron). Plus, a diamond plate is always going to be more aggressive at the same "grit" regardless by virtue of how the abrasives sit on top of the plate. Wouldn't consider them duplicates since as you said, grit numbers aren't really comparable between mfg.

You could follow the DMT fine with the Spyderco medium->Spyderco fine, though I doubt they'd be able to get rid of the scratches from the DMT (unless you spend a reaaaaallly long time on it). I think you might be better off starting with your Nortons then following with the Spydercos for a progression. Or the DMT's are okay if you're in a hurry and don't mind not getting all the scratches out.

 

[filedog]

The DMT fine is actually more coarse than the Spyderco Medium in my experience, though I'm definitely no authority on the matter, I just own examples of and have used both. Looking at the unified grit chart pinned in this forum would appear to corroborate my experience with the two (DMT fine=25micron vs Spyderco med=15micron). Plus, a diamond plate is always going to be more aggressive at the same "grit" regardless by virtue of how the abrasives sit on top of the plate. Wouldn't consider them duplicates since as you said, grit numbers aren't really comparable between mfg.

You could follow the DMT fine with the Spyderco medium->Spyderco fine, though I doubt they'd be able to get rid of the scratches from the DMT (unless you spend a reaaaaallly long time on it). I think you might be better off starting with your Nortons then following with the Spydercos for a progression. Or the DMT's are okay if you're in a hurry and don't mind not getting all the scratches out.

It's been a while since I read anything about sharpening, I didn't realize that about the scratches. I'm not looking for polished edges, but a longer lasting edge would be useful. Would it be better to use an al ox stone or stones, instead of the diamonds?
Is that because even my best steels are not that tough to sharpen?

 

[Grasshopperglock]

100 grit in any brand is aggressive. It's a grit you'd use on deep chip removal. Reprofiling a broken tip. Straightening a badly dulled edge with a curve worn in it.

280 takes more time but you can control it better. You can stay on a certain part of blade without digging out too much metal.

400 to remove the 280 scratches. 600 to finish it out.


I'd go with diamond. Everything can be sharpened with diamonds. Only certain things can be sharpened by stone.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

It's been a while since I read anything about sharpening, I didn't realize that about the scratches. I'm not looking for polished edges, but a longer lasting edge would be useful. Would it be better to use an al ox stone or stones, instead of the diamonds?
Is that because even my best steels are not that tough to sharpen?

For most of the steels you listed, what you've got for a setup should work pretty well, even excellently. For carbon steels, as with your traditional knives, you might consider a good-quality aluminum oxide stone like Norton's India stone, which is a good finishing complement to their Crystolon stone. In their 'Fine' grit, or a combo C/F India stone, the India works very well with carbon steel blades. Also works great with most mainstream kitchen knives in stainless (most are roughly equivalent to a steel like 420HC) and with other stainless like you listed (AUS-8, 14C28N, VG10). D2's very large carbides will refine better with diamond - so I'd use the DMTs for that steel and don't bother with anything else.

Another versatile combination for simple stainless steel is to set the edge with a diamond grit (anything from XC through Fine, according to your preference) and then very minimally apply a microbevel with one of the ceramic hones (Spyderco medium or fine, again according to preference). By 'minimally', I'm talking maybe 3 very, very light passes per side on the ceramic hone at a slightly elevated angle, to produce a microbevel that you'll probably not see by the naked eye, but which will narrow the apex width and help clean up the edge of burrs. The tiniest microbevel atop the toothy edge set by the diamond makes for a very aggressive-slicing edge that'll be durable as well (so long as the burrs are fully cleaned up). I've grown to really like that approach in knives of simple stainless similar to 420HC (Buck, Case for example, and also most stainless kitchen knives). Those steels don't need diamonds for sharpening. But when used with a light touch, they can still respond very well to it. Do as much refining as you can on the stones themselves. Too much stropping with compound tends to take a lot of that toothy, aggressive bite away from edges in these steels. So strop if you want - but I'd do it very minimally, just for the sake of cleaning up burrs. I don't strop with compound anymore at all, by preference, as I've become pretty spoiled on toothy edges that come straight from the stones.

 

[filedog]

100 grit in any brand is aggressive. It's a grit you'd use on deep chip removal. Reprofiling a broken tip. Straightening a badly dulled edge with a curve worn in it.

280 takes more time but you can control it better. You can stay on a certain part of blade without digging out too much metal.

400 to remove the 280 scratches. 600 to finish it out.


I'd go with diamond. Everything can be sharpened with diamonds. Only certain things can be sharpened by stone.

I recently notice my 14C28N folder had a couple of decent chips, and I used the Crystolon to take them out, it worked well.

For most of the steels you listed, what you've got for a setup should work pretty well, even excellently. For carbon steels, as with your traditional knives, you might consider a good-quality aluminum oxide stone like Norton's India stone, which is a good finishing complement to their Crystolon stone. In their 'Fine' grit, or a combo C/F India stone, the India works very well with carbon steel blades. Also works great with most mainstream kitchen knives in stainless (most are roughly equivalent to a steel like 420HC) and with other stainless like you listed (AUS-8, 14C28N, VG10). D2's very large carbides will refine better with diamond - so I'd use the DMTs for that steel and don't bother with anything else.

Another versatile combination for simple stainless steel is to set the edge with a diamond grit (anything from XC through Fine, according to your preference) and then very minimally apply a microbevel with one of the ceramic hones (Spyderco medium or fine, again according to preference). By 'minimally', I'm talking maybe 3 very, very light passes per side on the ceramic hone at a slightly elevated angle, to produce a microbevel that you'll probably not see by the naked eye, but which will narrow the apex width and help clean up the edge of burrs. The tiniest microbevel atop the toothy edge set by the diamond makes for a very aggressive-slicing edge that'll be durable as well (so long as the burrs are fully cleaned up). I've grown to really like that approach in knives of simple stainless similar to 420HC (Buck, Case for example, and also most stainless kitchen knives). Those steels don't need diamonds for sharpening. But when used with a light touch, they can still respond very well to it. Do as much refining as you can on the stones themselves. Too much stropping with compound tends to take a lot of that toothy, aggressive bite away from edges in these steels. So strop if you want - but I'd do it very minimally, just for the sake of cleaning up burrs. I don't strop with compound anymore at all, by preference, as I've become pretty spoiled on toothy edges that come straight from the stones.

I've got the Crystolon combo, and it works well, so I probably won't get the india stone. I did use the ceramics to set a micro bevel and remove the burr, that worked great!

 

[TheOne45]

Or the DMT's are okay if you're in a hurry and don't mind not getting all the scratches out.

What's wrong with scratches?
Outdoors55 (Youtube) can put hair splitting edge on his knife only with DMT fine and 3 micron strop.
Lately I use #240 or #320 diamond stone and strop. I discovered so called toothy edge cuts very aggressively and lasts longer. It also shaves and cuts any kind of paper.

 

[bmo419]

What's wrong with scratches?
Outdoors55 (Youtube) can put hair splitting edge on his knife only with DMT fine and 3 micron strop.
Lately I use #240 or #320 diamond stone and strop. I discovered so called toothy edge cuts very aggressively and lasts longer. It also shaves and cuts any kind of paper.

Never said anything was wrong with scratches but some people like a more refined edge and some don't. OP didn't really say what type of edge they preferred.

I sharpen my edges according to how I want the knife to cut for any particular use case. Sometimes a nice toothy slicer, sometimes a polished push cutter (which requires removing scratches obviously), sometimes a combination of both.

 

[TheOne45]

, sometimes a polished push cutter (which requires removing scratches obviously),

Yes, but you don't need to remove the scratches from the whole secondary bevel.
You can refine/polish the whole secondary bevel with finer (high grit) stones but you can also just remove/polish the "teeth" from the edge (polish only a few microns of the secondary bevel).
Both ways you make the knife a push cutter.

So, basically you only need one stone (for example DMT fine) and a strop and you can have toothy edge or smooth push-cutting edge.

 

[Boattale]

I only use a 3"x 10" diamond stone. 300 on one side 1000 on the other. I keep my knives screaming sharp that way. The stone and holder live on the patio.

 

[bmo419]

Yes, but you don't need to remove the scratches from the whole secondary bevel.
You can refine/polish the whole secondary bevel with finer (high grit) stones but you can also just remove/polish the "teeth" from the edge (polish only a few microns of the secondary bevel).
Both ways you make the knife a push cutter.

So, basically you only need one stone (for example DMT fine) and a strop and you can have toothy edge or smooth push-cutting edge.

Yeah I agree. That's all you'd need for a functional edge for sure.

Just speaking for myself, but I'm OCD enough that I remove the scratches if I'm going for a polished edge. I do enjoy the sharpening process enough (certainly have too many damn stones ) to put in that kind of effort if that's what I'm going for. It's fun to me and even moreso after I learned how to freehand.

 

[filedog]

Never said anything was wrong with scratches but some people like a more refined edge and some don't. OP didn't really say what type of edge they preferred.

I sharpen my edges according to how I want the knife to cut for any particular use case. Sometimes a nice toothy slicer, sometimes a polished push cutter (which requires removing scratches obviously), sometimes a combination of both.

I'm not that good at sharpening. My goal is to push cut phonebook paper, all along the blade. From what's been posted, and some other reading/video watching, I've learned some good stuff.
I think my setup is fine for me, though I would like to try the Norton India coarse/fine, but it's out of stock, or priced high at the moment.

 

[TheOne45]

Just speaking for myself, but I'm OCD enough that I remove the scratches if I'm going for a polished edge. I do enjoy the sharpening process enough (certainly have too many damn stones ) to put in that kind of effort if that's what I'm going for. It's fun to me and even moreso after I learned how to freehand.

You can say that again.

Just to add…I can free sharpen my knives on bench stones and with my folding pocket sharpener, but….sometimes I want to be more accurate then needed.
One of the reasons I use my guided system is when I want a perfect secondary bevel I. With my system I can achieve very good accuracy….you know…the same angle and bevel width on both sides.
I wonder if someone measured how accurate can hold the angle when hand sharpening.

My goal is to push cut phonebook paper,

You can do that with #240 diamond stone and some burr removal with stropping.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16FXbv1l0Q9iZjY9k8cDNFGsbBsrA6suO/view?usp=drivesdk

I would like to try the Norton India coarse/fine, but it's out of stock, or priced high at the moment.

Hey, don't 'count beans', it's your hobby. Compensate with a little less milk for children.

 

[filedog]

You can say that again.

Just to add…I can free sharpen my knives on bench stones and with my folding pocket sharpener, but….sometimes I want to be more accurate then needed.
One of the reasons I use my guided system is when I want a perfect secondary bevel I. With my system I can achieve very good accuracy….you know…the same angle and bevel width on both sides.
I wonder if someone measured how accurate can hold the angle when hand sharpening.

I'd like a guided system, but my current setup works well enough.

You can do that with #240 diamond stone and some burr removal with stropping.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16FXbv1l0Q9iZjY9k8cDNFGsbBsrA6suO/view?usp=drivesdk

Right? But my other stones will feel neglected!https://drive.google.com/file/d/16FXbv1l0Q9iZjY9k8cDNFGsbBsrA6suO/view?usp=drivesdk

Hey, don't 'count beans', it's your hobby. Compensate with a little less milk for children.