HR5160 temper lines?

M

MCoughlin

Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
471
Hi guys,
I'm attemting my first blade of 5160. I have some flatbar and am going to stock remove. Can 5160 be used to get a nice temper line. I've heard it's not the greatest for a differntial heat treat but I sure love the looks of a nice temper line and I have a buttload of 5160 so if it can be used that would be great.

Mike Coughlin
 
It can be done, I just dont know how. It is easier to get temper lines on simple steels W1, 10XX etc... I have seen some 5160 with temperlines, but I havent been able to make it work (havent tried too much either). Good luck
 
over in the Himalayan Imports Forum, we etch our khukuris (made of 5160) all the time with no problems. Just use a long vinegar soak, or a 1:2 FeCl:H20 mix. That said, I should add that these blades were water quenched. If you plan on oil-quenching, your line might not show up well.

But, why not just go for it and just see what happens? If it doesn't work, then you still got some nice 5160 blades. :D
 
I always thought quenching a blade in water would crack the blade... But I have zero experience in that department.

What are the benefits of a water quench as opposed to an oil quench?
Mike
 
All of the H.I. khukuris are water-quenched - but they do it differently. Instead of dunking the blade in a bucket of water, they pour water out of a teapot on it slowly and steadily. This is the process they have used for decades. Very interesting technique - but not recommended. :D

I'd warm up a bucket of saltwater, leave the edge a little thick, and go for it.

The water quench is said to be a faster quench - which, if I understand correctly, creates a more strikingly quench line.
 
If you use clay to control the temper line you will find it's very distinct. Post a photo so we can see how it turned out. Fred
 
water is faster, water is more exciting, water gives a better hamon.

Water quench needs to be interupted. The Machinery Handbook, mentions spray nozzles for thin sections. hmmmmm
 
The spray nozzle thing sounds to slow to me. You have under a second to work with. Definetly not on a big blade.
With clay, you will get a more distinct hamon and a tougher spine to boot. That is what I've seen with the test I've made on edge quenched or toarch releaved
blades compared to clay hardened ones. There are many ways to get there, this is just mine. Fred
 
I got a nice temper line on a 5160 blade that I did with a torch. I really think it happened by accident. In other words I got lucky. :) I think how hot the steel is before quench has something to do with it. I quenched the blade in 120 degree transmission fluid. When I heated a large camp knife blade in Larry Nowicki's forge and did an edge quench the temper line was not as noticable. :confused: I'm fairly new to this heat treating game so I'm still experimenting.
Scott
 
Ok well it seems that clay would be the way to go. Looks like I'll need someone else to heat treat my blade. An the search continues.

Thanks for the help guys. :cool:

Mike Coughlin
 
If you'll grind 2 blades, I'll gladly clay-coat them and give the heat treat a shot in exchange for one of the blades. (best one goes to you, of course)


I do know a few knifemakers in the Alberta area that would be willing to lend a hand as well.
 
mikxx1 said:
Ok well it seems that clay would be the way to go. Looks like I'll need someone else to heat treat my blade. An the search continues.

Thanks for the help guys. :cool:

Mike Coughlin
Click to expand...
Whoa Mike, you can do it yourself. Clay hardening is not
hard to do. Besides, its fun and you will learn alot by doing. Give me a call on this 800 number and I'll walk you through the process. Fred
[866-325-2164]
 
Fred.Rowe said:
Whoa Mike, you can do it yourself. Clay hardening is not
hard to do. Besides, its fun and you will learn alot by doing. Give me a call on this 800 number and I'll walk you through the process. Fred
[866-325-2164]
Click to expand...


Fred,
I actually don't have an oven so I'll need someone else to do it anyway unless it can be done with a torch. I will give you a call though when I have my oven. Unfortunately I have to do my landscaping this year so it won't be until next summer. Thanks anyways though.

Mike Coughlin
 
Mike,

You can do it with a torch. The bladesmith who taught me how to forge does all of his 5160 that way, and now so do I. Just heat it slowly and evenly. I quench in oil and when etched it still gives a pretty good temper line. Have yet to try the clay myself as I am just trying to get my fit and finish better. Let me know if you need anything.

Mike
 
I have been able to get a temper line on 5160 with a torch with no trouble. The opposite, though - heating the whole blade and quenching only the edge - won´t show it no matter what.
Look at the Kiridashi thread I posted some days ago and you can see the very well defined - much like a pencil mark - temper line on the blade. That one I made at the forge mouth, with no need to use a torch, but I could not do it one a larger blade.
 
Big Country said:
Mike,

You can do it with a torch. The bladesmith who taught me how to forge does all of his 5160 that way, and now so do I. Just heat it slowly and evenly. I quench in oil and when etched it still gives a pretty good temper line. Have yet to try the clay myself as I am just trying to get my fit and finish better. Let me know if you need anything.

Mike
Click to expand...
So to do the clay does it matter what type of clay is used? I work in a steel plant and there are various clays/muds for filling in cracks in certain refractory materials. Would something like this work? Also I'm assuming the clay is put on the center part of the blade and the edge is left uncoated...I know I'm asking a lot of questions but I want to do this right. I'm also assuming I don't torch the clay part and that I heat the edge to non-magnetic?...then quench and temper with the clay still on the blade? :confused:
Mike Coughlin
 
mikxx1 said:
So to do the clay does it matter what type of clay is used? I work in a steel plant and there are various clays/muds for filling in cracks in certain refractory materials. Would something like this work? Also I'm assuming the clay is put on the center part of the blade and the edge is left uncoated..

Hi Mike, The refractory clay will work. It sticks to the surface a little better if you cut it about half with potters clay, but will work on it's own. You can purchase comercial products but use what you have. I coat all parts of the blade that I do not want to harden with the clay, including the tang. Make sure you have a distinct line along the clay where you want the Hamon to show. I heat the clay first at the thickest part of the blade and let the heat migrate to the thinner parts heating the tip last. I want to submerge the whole blade in the quench. Result is a tough flexable spine with the hard edge. Remove clay before tempering. Fred Get on the phone if I have confused things. Good luck!
Click to expand...
 
Here is a picture of a knife I made from 5160 with a temperline back in February. I used a torch to heat treat the edge, quenched in 140 degF oil, then tempered. Hand rubbed to 600 grit then brought the temperline out with Ferric Chloride, etched for 10-12 seconds. Used 3 parts distilled water, 1 part FeCl. Also used fingernail polish as a resist on the shoulders and part way down the tang. Rubbed the blade out with Semichrome or Never-dull, don't remember.

I have to give Terry Primos the credit on how to do it. He's the one that told me how.


picture.JPG
 
Nice temper line you got there.
Can you tell us what wood have you used for the handle?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top