Hudson Bay designs

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PayetteRucker

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Aug 4, 2009
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There seems to be only one common dimension when it comes to Hudson Bay design, a 10 inch-ish blade. Everything else, from handle style to blade width and thickness to the depth and length of the clip point to the sweep of the blade seems to be left up to the mind of the designer. I've seen them from 1.5 inches wide to 3 inche wide, and anywhere from 1/16th to 1/4 of an inch thick. The funny part is, as popular as this design has become, nobody seems to be discussing the advantages and disadvantages of these vague factors of the design. What do you look for in your Hudson Bay and why?
 
Hudson Bay camp knives are just plainly cool, and were the Busse's of their day. As for blade length I think they range from 7"-10" length and most are 1/4" on the spine.

Here is like the second or third blade I ever forged (top blade). I wanted to forge an Hudson's Bay camp knife and this was my first attempt. The bottom blade was my friend's first knife (forged).

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__I1PFZY3p...I-DOKw/s1600-h/hammerinin04-studentknives.jpg

I put lots of pins in that handle as I wanted to showcase the wood scales and man was that an PITA for an beginner.

Now that I have my own shop I need to make some of these up in 3/16" and 1/4".
 
oldpinecricker said:
Hudson Bay camp knives are just plainly cool, and were the Busse's of their day. As for blade length I think they range from 7"-10" length and most are 1/4" on the spine.

Here is like the second or third blade I ever forged (top blade). I wanted to forge an Hudson's Bay camp knife and this was my first attempt. The bottom blade was my friend's first knife (forged).

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__I1PFZY3p...I-DOKw/s1600-h/hammerinin04-studentknives.jpg

I put lots of pins in that handle as I wanted to showcase the wood scales and man was that an PITA for an beginner.

Now that I have my own shop I need to make some of these up in 3/16" and 1/4".
Click to expand...

Good looking knife, nice design. Looks like a great camp knife.
 
Bill Siegle Hudson Bay----

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It's a great OVERALL design.From Chopping to Food Prep

I sold that model to a friend that wanted me to...and I miss it.

I tried the Bark River Model and it could not handle the Hard TX woods without edge damage.
 
I'm not sure that today's interpretations of the HBK design is the same as the originals.
My understanding, and I stand to be corrected is that it was originally internded for trade with the various indigenous peoples encountered at trading posts and along fur trade routes throughout northern North America.
The originals were made of thinner stock than what is made by custom makers today, with the primary use being camp slicer, skinner, butchering knife. An assumption can be made that most trappers, traders, natives had heavier tools for processing wood.

That said I think the HBK has evolved into a much more versatile wilderness tool. I would argue that todays custom makers are at a greater level of expertise in terms of edge geometry and HT than the craftsmen that were charged with producing the knives in their time. With that it is possible to make a chopper that can easily di finer work as well. Here is my kick ass HBK made by Walter Davis.

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I have a Terry Baublitz HBK camp knife, chief version (with two washer eyes on the handle). Has been a great user. Because of the "eyes" on the handle, it is very different from the other HBK's I've seen.
 
From http://www.fholder.com/Blacksmithing/article2.htm

The Hudson Bay Camp Knife

by Fred Holder

In the February 1994 issue of Blacksmith's Gazette, we addressed some of the most common items of ironwork made by today's blacksmiths for the muzzle loading trade. Knives are another item much used by the muzzle loader shooter and re-creator. During the fur trade era, the time frame many of the buckskinners emulate, a great number of knives were imported from England for trade with the Indians. Many of these knives were also used by the trappers who went to the mountains in search of the beaver. One type of knife much favored by trappers was imported by the Hudson Bay company from the English shops of Sheffield during the first half of the nineteenth century in fairly large quantities.

The knife depicted here is a close copy of a Jukes Coulson, Stokes & Co. knife illustrated in Figure 45 of Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men by Carl P. Russell. The thick horn scales on the original knife are held to the hilt by oversized rivets holding brass washers and by a heavy metal ferrule riveted to the front end of the hilt. The blade is about 8-1/2 inch long but of such thickness and shape as to be quite stiff. Russell states, of the knife, "Here is a knife made to order for the hunter or cook responsible for breaking out chunks of carcasses of the game animals to be served up to trappers. This type of knife was for a time sufficiently stable to give it a recognized place in the inventories of the fur companies and was commonly dubbed the Hudson Bay Knife." The specimen illustrated in Russell's book is owned by the U.S. National Museum. Russell notes that The Museum of the Plains Indian, Browning, Montana also has one like it, except that a third big rivet takes the place of the ferrule on the hilt. Other specimens are owned by the Museum of the American Indian and the North Dakota Historical Society, Russell says....


This is a copy of the drawing provided by Ike Bay. It was taken from a drawing done by Richard E. Sverdrup of Longview, Washington in 1971. Overall length of the knife is 14-1/8 inches, blade is 8-7/8 inches long and 1-7/8 inches wide by 1/4" thick. The blade is marked Jukes Coulson Stokes & Co. Sheffield., Handles are walnut panels, held by four rivets. Ferrele & Rivet heads: brass approximately 1/32 inch thick.
 


I think the Bark River Hudson Bay Camp Knife is a pretty good modern interpretation of the classic trade knife. :thumbup:




Big Mike
 
WOW, a ton of awesome information and it has only confirmed my original thoughts. The only real two factors in the design of a Hudson Bay are a clip point and a 10ish inch blade, the rest appears to be up to the mind of the designer. I love the sweep on the Seigle Hudson Bay. William, since those choppers are so similar do you find much performance difference between a swept blade and a straight one? The blades in the article appear to have a pretty solid sweep to them as well, yet the Condor and other Hudson Bays I've seen on here are straight. It also fascinates me that this was typically primarily a butchering knife. If these trappers and mountain men carried multiple large blades for individual tasks, imagine how much weight they carried? They must have typically used mules and/or pack horses. Nowadays most of us carry one long blade, if that-albiet most of us aren't processing lots of meat in the field...
 
The more versions ya look at the more some start to resemble the Resin Bowie knife as well. Then figure in some early butchers knives and they all start to merge eh !
 
This brings back memories. I haven't made a Hudson Bay knife for quite sometime. Actually, I've only made two. This was the first I made back in 2005.
Scott

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It seems as though, even with the thick blade, the handle on most of these designs is flush with the spine of the blade. Is there a reason for this? Just ease of manufacture? If you could drop the handle in relation to the spine by even just a quarter of an inch, it could make for a nice thumb ramp and center the tip more along the axis of the grip.
 
This is my "Go To" the Wild Hudson Bay.... Mike at Idaho Knife Works built it to my specs and I asked him to shorten and thinned it so it can also double as a whittler....It is not hard on the eyes neither...looks like it was lifted from a Historical Museum.

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That's it, I've got to get to work on building some of these!

I've got a pile of 5160 in 3/16" and 1/4" and some 1084 in 3/16".

How about some suggestion on how which thickness of steel to start with?

The fire is getting ready to cook.
 
Someone here (I think it was Breeden) had made a knife similar to that design and it had horn handles...anyone remember what thread that was in or have pics? I'm pretty sure it was Bryan..
 
Here's another version from Matt (ML Knives):

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Simple looking knife, but highly useful camp knife (kind of a butcher's knife on steroids + Matt's great edge geometry).
 
That's it, I've got to get to work on building some of these!

I've got a pile of 5160 in 3/16" and 1/4" and some 1084 in 3/16".

How about some suggestion on how which thickness of steel to start with?

The fire is getting ready to cook.
Click to expand...

Well I've made 3 now out of 3/16" steel and they have a nice feel to them. I'd say make one out of both 1/4" and 3/16" :) And post up pics of course!
The 1/4" one will have more chopping power, and the 3/16" will be a little lighter and quicker in the hand.

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Is that a blued blade finish on yours Scott? I like it.

Bruce
 
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