Hudson Bay Style Axe - Help Identify Please

[MikeLV]

My really nice "Genuine Norlund" was stolen from the truck tool box the other night - at least I have some pictures and PD says pictures help -

I have since found a project that turns out is NOT a Norlund after I cleaned it up - and I would like to know what it is - images below - I see no major stamped marking except for a 1 -3 under the back of the axe, and "maybe" a partial stamp on the back side of "AN" with a "0" underneath. Weighs 2.05lb. Any insight appreciated.

 

[grafton]

Looks like a Snow and Nealley. The weight stamp is for 1 3/4 pounds. The stamping should be Snow and Nealley Co. Bangor Maine

 

[jblyttle]

Exactly right, I have had a few of these and even the profile and eye shape match. Having the weight not exactly match the stamp is fairly common. Although the theft of your Norlund is a hateful thing and I wish karma upon the thief, take some solace in the fact that you replaced it with an arguably better tool. It is in my opinion. What are your handle plans?

 

[halfaxe]

Yes Snow & Nealley, later style but US made. Could be L.L. Bean Freeport ME marked.

 

[Steve Tall]

Yes Snow & Nealley, later style but US made. Could be L.L. Bean Freeport ME marked.

Bingo!
Below is a photo of a Hudson Bay axe stamped
LL BEAN INC
FREEPORT, ME

with the AN from BEAN directly over the O from FREEPORT, just like the mystery axe.

 

[300Six]

You've got sharp eyes Steve! Betcha you're a wizard at conventional puzzles too.

 

[Steve Tall]

Credit goes to halfaxe, I only found some evidence that confirmed his theory.

 

[markv]

well you guys solved the mystery already.
my only guess would've been Snow & Nealley because they made this style of axe.
L.L. Bean pretty cool

i have one similar but no marking whatsoever.
bummer about the Norlund, hope the guy chops his finger off.
all good

buzz

 

[grafton]

Bingo!
Below is a photo of a Hudson Bay axe stamped
LL BEAN INC
FREEPORT, ME

with the AN from BEAN directly over the O from FREEPORT, just like the mystery axe.

Not to make things more complicated but this photo of the LL Bean axe is not likely a Snow and Nealley head. The OPs axe is, but that added photo is, I believe, from a different maker. Most LL Bean marked Hudson Bay axes are Snow and Nealleys but there is an exception. I believe the others were likely made by Collins but hard to say.

There are some distinct differences. The Font on the stamping is different and the stamp is always more bold, never light like the Snow and Nealley axes. The weight stamping under the poll is absent on all examples I have seen (in fact you can see in the added photo that it is not there) All the original Snow and Nealleys and Snow and Nealley LL Beans had a metal wedge. The "other" Hudson bay always has a wooden one. The dimensions of the "other" LL Bean head are not the same as the Snow and Nealley Hudson Bays either. The Snow and Nealleys of that particular Hudson bay pattern are a bit shorter, measuring under 6 1/2 inches in length. The "other" head pictured is longer, more like 6 3/4", Also the original handles supplied with them are of a different shape as well. This is simply my opinion, having owned, handled and studied multiple examples of LL Bean marked axes and Snow and Nealleys over the years. I have multiple examples of at least 4 different variations of LL Bean marked Hudson bays from the mid 1930's on up to the 80's, 3 of the different shape/designs made by S&N, and then the odd one out shown above.

Could it be that for a few years Snow and Nealley simply changed the head pattern, stopped using metal wedges, changed the handles, changed the font, improved the stamping depth and removed the weight stamping? Sure but it does not add up to me and everything points to a different manufacturer.

The axe in the first post is a Snow and Nealley made one and they are some of the best camp axes ever made, hang it and enjoy it! (by the way, the original handle should would have been about 23" long unless it was the shorter 18" kindling version.)

 

[markv]

ahhh, not so fast, maybe not Snow & Nealley after all.
curiouser and curiouser
i have the S & N kindling axe 6-1/2" length head with 4" bit. the handle is marked Snow & Nealley over Bangor. Maine. this axe still has some of the paper label intact which says OUR BEST AXE. no weight stamp anywhere on the head.
oh, and yes, the metal wedge, i'm assuming to be aluminum
buzz

 

[grafton]

The newer axes are likely to be the ones not stamped. There are odd exceptions out there. I have an example of the same axe you describe with intact label, probably from the same era and it has a weight stamping but otherwise no other stamping. I also have what I believe to be a very rare bird indeed, a S&N stamped Hudson bay with a 1 1/2 pound weight stamp. I have never seen another one, all others I have seen are 1 3/4. The neat thing about researching and studying these things is right when you feel like you have a handle on it you come across something totally new to you.....

And to confuse things further, I believe some of the very earliest Snow and Nealley Hudson bays sold by LL Bean had heads marked as Snow and Nealley but had LL Bean marked leather sheaths......some of the questions will likely never be answered and I have a bunch. One of these days I will head up to Maine and have a talk with the LL Bean archives folks and try to get some of this straight...

 

[markv]

you gotta say one thing for L.L.Bean, they sourced an excellently made local tool.
buzz

 

[halfaxe]

The newer axes are likely to be the ones not stamped. There are odd exceptions out there. I have an example of the same axe you describe with intact label, probably from the same era and it has a weight stamping but otherwise no other stamping. I also have what I believe to be a very rare bird indeed, a S&N stamped Hudson bay with a 1 1/2 pound weight stamp. I have never seen another one, all others I have seen are 1 3/4. The neat thing about researching and studying these things is right when you feel like you have a handle on it you come across something totally new to you.....

And to confuse things further, I believe some of the very earliest Snow and Nealley Hudson bays sold by LL Bean had heads marked as Snow and Nealley but had LL Bean marked leather sheaths......some of the questions will likely never be answered and I have a bunch. One of these days I will head up to Maine and have a talk with the LL Bean archives folks and try to get some of this straight...

I hope you do get up there and see what you can find out. I also have several L.L. Bean and S&N Hudson Bays. The earlier wedge patterns both 1 3/4 lb. one L.L. Bean and one S&N marked but identical otherwise. Also I have some of the longer, later styles made by S&N but also one of the deep stamp type I think is made by Collins too. That latter lays perfect on a Collins with the only difference a notch under the place where the blade and poll meet in the Collins marked. Also the L.L. Bean marked came with a Collins type sheath with a two-snap flap.

 

[grafton]

I have pieced together quite a bit of information from old LL Bean catalogs but I still have more to learn. Here are some prices for LL Bean Hudson bays that some might get a kick out of:

1936 $1.95
1942 $2.10
1945 $2.85
1965 $5.85
1968 $6.50

 

[markv]

those prices sound about right.
thanks for posting

buzz

 

[MikeLV]

Wow – thanks to all for the ID! A most interesting discussion – as I understand it – this is a “Snow & Nealley” Hudson Bay Pattern Axe sold by LL Bean, with the stampings being for LL Bean. Is my understanding correct? – and – what approximate year would this have been from?

The letters are quite lightly stamped – and a quick run through of offerings on “That Auction Site” shows that there is a wide variation of depth of stampings by Snow & Nealley. I was especially concerned that the “P” in Freeport was not visible next to the “O” in my images. Is that a function of the light stamping or possibly of some aggressive restoration in the past?

I have attached some pictures of the wooden handle that was on this when I received it. Overall length is 22-1/4”. The bottom of the handle is marked with what appears to be a fuzzy makers name and “¾” as being less than standard size handle. I really like the smaller cruiser axes as I spent two summers cutting brush for a timber company (Willamette Industries) doing surveying and unit layout – and the combination of weight, length and versatility is just about perfect! Light sanding and linseed oil is all I intend to do to finish the handle.

I have struggled to find good slimmed down/light weight handles for these axes and have not succeeded – so was careful to not hurt this one as I removed the wedge (poorly installed). I need to cut the kerf down – but seems to be a good handle for a most interesting axe - even with a bit of sway in the handle.

 

[halfaxe]

Wow – thanks to all for the ID! A most interesting discussion – as I understand it – this is a “Snow & Nealley” Hudson Bay Pattern Axe sold by LL Bean, with the stampings being for LL Bean. Is my understanding correct?yes – and – what approximate year would this have been from?A guess 1960's -70s

The letters are quite lightly stamped – and a quick run through of offerings on “That Auction Site” shows that there is a wide variation of depth of stampings by Snow & Nealley. I was especially concerned that the “P” in Freeport was not visible next to the “O” in my images. Is that a function of the light stamping or possibly of some aggressive restoration in the past?yes

I have attached some pictures of the wooden handle that was on this when I received it. Overall length is 22-1/4”. The bottom of the handle is marked with what appears to be a fuzzy makers name and “¾” as being less than standard size handle. I really like the smaller cruiser axes as I spent two summers cutting brush for a timber company (Willamette Industries) doing surveying and unit layout – and the combination of weight, length and versatility is just about perfect! Light sanding and linseed oil is all I intend to do to finish the handle.The handle was also stamped with 1 3/4 for the head weight. That handle looks good and is a difficult size to find. You could slim that sharp edge at the shoulder and set it down a little lower.

I have struggled to find good slimmed down/light weight handles for these axes and have not succeeded – so was careful to not hurt this one as I removed the wedge (poorly installed). I need to cut the kerf down – but seems to be a good handle for a most interesting axe - even with a bit of sway in the handle.

I put my answers in bold above

 

[grafton]

That is likely the original handle as the size and shape are correct as is the metal wedge. I think the guess of 60's to 70's is a good one. If it had its original sheath it would be a little easier to refine that date. On the older style LL Bean Hudson bay axes (earlier than yours, different head shape) one way to check for the original handle is to look for the word "SPECIAL" stamped into the handle about half way down on the left side. There is also a version that is even earlier that was an inch longer with a full fawns foot and had an LL Bean decal on the butt of the handle but not marked "SPECIAL"..

If you are planning on reusing that handle but using a new wooden wedge you are right that you will likely have to cut the kerf a little deeper as the original kerfs for those metal wedges were quite shallow.

Another way to tighten up these without loosing the original wedge is to make two very slim wooden wedges and drive the original metal wedge down between them. Also you can often make a small wooden wedge to fill the gap that is sometimes present at the front of the eye and that is all that is needed to tighten the whole thing up. The Snow and Nealley metal wedges are disliked by many and I confess that I have removed and rewedged with wood on quite a few. One good thing about those metal wedges is that it seems to have prevented a lot of people from just driving in nails, screws and other bits of metal, a problem most of us a have seen too much of.

 

[MikeLV]

Well - shined up, sharpened, oiled and painted - fashioned a small wooden wedge to take up space along with the metal wedge - need a helper to finish getting it driven the rest of the way in - but am essentially done. Thanks for the help - this goes back in the truck - INSIDE!