Hydraulic Press, Selection Criterion?

Pete84

Pete84

Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
168
In a recent thread I was advised that for the purpose of forge welding billets of either San Mai or Damascus, a hydraulic press ranging from $1600-$5k would be needed, unless it was a smaller billet. I've been looking around at a dizzying number of hydraulic presses and I'm having a hard time understanding what criterion make a press suitable for knifemaking.

I've seen a number of presses from Harbor Freight, etc which are tempting... then again, I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for. The ones I was looking at are linked below. Are these suitable for forge welding? If so, what makes them the "right" tool for the job? If not, what would be the pitfalls of using such an item? I guess, in a nutshell, I don't know what the benchmarks of a "good" hydraulic press are versus a "bad" hydraulic press. This is not to say I question the advice I've been given -- more that I would like to understand the reasoning behind it so I can shop for presses more intelligently.

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-ton-air-hydraulic-shop-press-with-oil-filter-crusher-65330.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/50-ton-hydraulic-shop-press-96188.html

I would consider building my own, but I do not yet have any welding skills to speak of... something I'm intending to rectify by way of schooling -- soon, hopefully. In the meantime, fabricating one on my own without an extensive "no-weld" kit would be borderline impossible.

Any thoughts? Thanks, guys! You've all been tremendously helpful!.... and to think, I've barely scratched the surface... :) Good times!
 
http://www.hightemptools.com/hydraulicpress.html

Here's a link to one... You want a press designed for blacksmithing/bladesmithing.... A couple of the things you want to look for as far as I know as I am just researching myself...
Ram speed....You need to be able to do multiple presses in a short time while the steel is still hot.
Two common frame styles One, H frame like the Claiborne press, the other is a straight press. I can't remember the other popular maker of those style of presses.... I personally am sold on a Claiborne...

The HF presses will likely be more work, with less success than just making damascus billets by hand... Don't be daunted by the thought of doing them by hand... Give it a try!! I'll be doing one soon myself by hand...
 
I had a feeling Ram speed was a big factor. I'm wondering what else might factor in. There has to be something pretty big to jump from a HF press at $900 to a Claiborne at $3500. I'll do some more digging to see if I can unearth what else makes the Claiborne the superior machine, aside from the obvious.

I am planning to do some San Mai by hand, now that I have a proper forge. I think making the billet won't be the hardest thing... forging it into a useful shape will be. I've just barely begun forging, so I have a lot of practice to do in the meantime. I'm just thinking ahead because, well, I'm already addicted. :) Thanks for the feedback!
 
You need enough GPM to move the ram at 1-3 IPS and deliver 20 tons or more force. That usually requires a 4" cylinder, a pump of 11GPM or more, and a motor of 5HP electric or 10HP gas.

The cheapest way to set up a small press on a budget is to purchase a used log splitter and convert it by adding the dies and beefing up the rail. It won't be a Clairborne, but it will work fine. With some welding ability and a good deal on a splitter from the trader or Craig's List, you can put a light duty press together for $300-$800. Ofter a splitter can be found for nearly free because it has a bad engine. These can be the best deal, since you may want to convert to electric anyway. Only thing to remember is that not every garage shop is wired to run a 240VAC 5HP motor.

An alternative to electric is to mount a gas motor and pump on a rolling cart, and use long hydraulic hoses to place the motor outside the shop door and the press inside. You can even permanently place the motor outside in a small shed/enclosure and pipe the hydraulic lines through the wall. This works well for an electric start motor.

For a good gas motor setup - look around for a deal on a 10HP or larger generator with a good electric start motor. Mounting the pump to replace the dynamo will be easy. About six months after a hurricane, generators are cheap in all the local trader papers.
Some are very quiet when running.
 
Everything Stacy has said is right on.

Once you go larger than 20 ton, you are increasing the cylinder diameter, which needs larger pumps and larger motors.

because the calculation for area is based on a circle, the radius squared x Pi
The numbers get bigger in a hurry from there.

You can see a gallery of peoples presses on Don Foggs site
See the links on the page bottom for the link Igive you below.

There is a book written by an engineer on how to calculate and build.
http://www.dfoggknives.com/hydralic.htm



The ram speed is important to get as many presses in before the work goes cold

The ram on a forging press is double acting, meaning power in both directions.
You can see 2 hose fittings on the cylinder

Most shop presses have single acting cylinders, or slow ram speed
So starting with them, you need to change the cylinder & pump & maybe the motor

I've seen many people on the forums try to start with those & then go to a better one.
The first one was lost time & $.


If you look at that forge gallery, not all are welded.
You can build it bolting it together, then get it pro welded after the frame is all built.
I put more faith in good fasteners and huge pins than in welds that may be bad.
 
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