Recommendation? Hytest Hatchet: Is handle beyond repair? How much life left in the bit?

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KiwiBloke

Joined
Oct 2, 2018
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Hey folks so I received this Hytest Hatchet today and am thinking it needs a new haft but am wondering if it's worth it given the quality of head.

there is/was some splintering around the bottom eye. A bit of sand paper took some of it away (and gave me a few splinters) but it's obviously very old and knackered.

I was going to chop the knob off where it is well gone and make it a bit shorter. The head has a very slight wiggle which shouldn't be an issue to sort out.

I only ask as a new 16" handle is $32 New Zealand Dollars (roughly $20 USD). If the head is too gone I would rather invest the money in another axe.

I am a novice but it looks as though the toe of the axe is pretty far gone? Would need to file the heel back a fair bit right? How much life is left in the bit? I like Hytest and its history and it is good steel so wondering if its worth rehanging her on hickory or just use it as is till it breaks.

Any thoughts would be very appreciated! Thank you.


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I guess I am of two minds when it comes to handles in general. My more overbearing mind says that the handle should be perfect and a good axe deserves a good handle and therefore there is almost no reason to "save" a handle that is in poor condition. ETA: One reason for this line of thinking is that I enjoy hanging axes, I enjoy making handles, and if I didn't they are cheap and not very time consuming to install once you've got the hang of it. Excuses for bad handles run out quickly for me except that I'm the guy complaining about not being able to get the wood necessary for handle making. What a freakin contradiction, am I right?

On the OTHER hand, if the handle feels good and seems to be structurally sound then shouldn't there be some effort made to save it, particularly if it's old. In your case, the damage is the result of misses or driving the axe too deeply across the piece being split. Or in other words - it's taken blows and I suppose that could potentially weaken the wood. Have I used handles in that condition? Yep. Have I caused handles to look like that and THEN kept using them? Yep.
 
Haha spot on with the contradiction mate! What fantastic line of thinking it really does make a lot of sense.

If I cleaned her up a bit and it lasted me a few years I would probably laugh at myself one day and say "man to think I almost cut that handle off!" When she takes her last blow I can always just rehang it when that time comes; this way I get both.

My main concern with this axe is the toe. From what Iv'e read a lot of guys would avoid an axe with a toe like that? It sits behind the heel quite noticeably..
 
KiwiBloke said:
Haha spot on with the contradiction mate! What fantastic line of thinking it really does make a lot of sense.

If I cleaned her up a bit and it lasted me a few years I would probably laugh at myself one day and say "man to think I almost cut that handle off!" When she takes her last blow I can always just rehang it when that time comes; this way I get both.

My main concern with this axe is the toe. From what Iv'e read a lot of guys would avoid an axe with a toe like that? It sits behind the heel quite noticeably..
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You're totally right. So the toe yeah, it's worn. I think at the end of the day the real question is, was the price right? I mean, it's still useful so if it was cheap then it's great and like many tools, it's always good to have a beater on hand. And, you may determine that the head itself is in fact not worth the effort of a better handle. I think that's fair. Save your time and effort for when that really sweet axe comes into your possession.
 
If you are curious I got it for $12.50 USD (if that is your currency) including shipping; so not bad. I like Hytest and even though the stamp is half gone it's still cool to have some aussie steel in my collection.

I will pull the heel back so it is closer to the toe. She will be a butch looking thing but at least will be more uniform. I suppose the real question is how far does the temper go back right?
 
Should have plenty of good steel in the bit to even it up. You can draw a line with a marker where you want the edge before you start filling, that way you know what you are working towards.
 
KiwiBloke said:
I suppose the real question is how far does the temper go back right?
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Little more than an acid (e.g. vinegar dip) will tell you that.

You could try a file but if it's not a monosteel head (are all Hytests supposed to me monosteel?) you may arrive to a false conclusion.
 
Moonw said:
Little more than an acid (e.g. vinegar dip) will tell you that.
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Sorry for my ignorance I am yet to get to work so have no experience (in 4 weeks I have a couple of months available to spend a lot of time restoring a bunch of axes.)

So after the bath would/should a 'hamon line' be noticeable i.e 2 very different shades of metal distinguishing where it has been tempered too?

If I file it back to a symmetrical edge which is beyond the temper is that remaining steel very brittle and likely to snap, crack or not hold an edge well?

Thanks for the wisdom mate.
 
Right on about the hamon line (well, technically it's a hardening line, although some call it "tempering line"...it's almost like splitting hairs).

As for the second scenario: the harder steel is at the edge. It needs to hold an edge while cutting. Softer one, the rest, s to speak :) - it's meant to absorb the brunt of the blows...act like a big spring if you will. Hard metal cracks, soft one is, as we call it,"tougher" (not brittle). Go past the hard edge and you won't have a durable edge.

If you want to feel more enlightned, search on this forum about "inserted bits", "overcoat bits" (vs monosteel heads). You will see why this adds a new...3 D :) perspective (variable) to the subject at hand. And why "what it seems" at a first glance is not always "what you get". So your innitial assumption about the life left in the bit may show more (overcoat) or less (inserted) life than there actually is. It's easy to tell, really.

These older techniques would apply to much older heads, when steel was , the Hytest
 
Had some error while posting - "You were blocked".

So, about the last line: "These older techniques would apply to much older heads, when steel was a more valuable commodity, and the body made of iron. Hytests may have all been made out of a single piece of steel for convenience. Forge-welding (required in the older ways) involves a higher skill. Some smiths still use it, and I personally like it. The only difference is that they weld a bit to a low-carbon head (harder to find iron these days).
 
Geez thanks for pointing me in the right direction Moon what you said I found fascinating! It seems as though I have some reading and research to do!
 
KiwiBloke said:
I will pull the heel back so it is closer to the toe.
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This is something I always do with an axe I want to put back into real service.

FLINT77 said:
Should have plenty of good steel in the bit to even it up. You can draw a line with a marker where you want the edge before you start filling, that way you know what you are working towards.
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I agree, I bet there's plenty of hardened steel left to take the heel back and bring this axe back into prime condition. As you suggest I would draw a line with a marker before I started re-shaping the the bit. I'm not shy about using the bench grinder to get it back to that marker line. If you hold the bit at 90° to the grinding wheel it will remove metal much faster than metal heats up. There's no worry of damaging the temper in this operation.

And it looks like this axe has been hand filed in the past, not worked on a grinder. So the remaining steel is likely well tempered and has not ever been overheated. That's a good thing and makes this axe more worth restoring.

As for laying out the new cut line with a marker, I aim to cut the heel slightly shorter than the toe. This makes it a better bucker. Normally I just free hand a line with a Sharpie. But for the sake of demonstrating my thinking I've drawn out my thought process for this axe.

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I start by finding the line of the back of the eye. I consider this the vertical axis of the axe. See the black lines in the image. I construct a perpendicular to this line out past the bit. Then I construct another perpendicular to this line (parallel to the first line) through the tip of the toe down through the heel. This shows you how far back the toe has been filed in the past and how much heel needs to be removed to even them up. Then I will sketch a gentle arc from the toe to a point on the heel that is short of the toe. See the red line. This is the line I will grind to with the bench grinder.

This will leave a heel very thick! Maybe over 1/8 inch (3mm). I will then file the entire axe to the U.S. Forest Service axe gauge. This will result in a banana or half-banana grind depending on the shape of the cheeks of the axe. I don't worry about the shape of the banana or half-banana. The shape of the cheeks will determine the shape of the banana. I just file to the gauge or to some very similar convex edge that I want on this particular axe.
 
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As a side note: I see many people "restoring" an axe which to them means putting a new stick in the eye and putting a radial grind on the old worn shape of the axe. This is completely unsatisfactory for an axe that will see any work. They may even polish or blue this horribly shaped and worn axe. But that is just lipstick on a pig.

If you want to put a used axe to work you need to fix the toe/heel relationship. And you need to shape the grind to your specific needs. A radial grind might might suffice for a thin flat-cheeked axe. But it will leave a lot to be desired on a proper vintage convex-cheeked axe.
 
Thank you peg for taking the time to write that out and even draw up a picture for me to understand better. What an absolute legend you are (as we say in NZ). Invaluable information that I will cherish.

Couldn't agree more in regards to the restoring of axes. Putting a new handle on a head and giving it a sharpen at the end is just that; bringing it back to her glory days is restoration!

Will be sure to let you know how I get on!
 
Another way to figure out how to shape your bit is to draw the centerline of the ridge on the cheek of your axe. Then construct a perpendicular to that line through the worn toe of your axe and down through the heel. You'll see that this results in a bit shape very similar to what you would have arrived at through the other method.

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Yup what a good sort! Great to see people so knowledgeable and also willing to help others who are beginners! Genuinely treats axes with respect and love and wants to see them done right by.

So far from what I’ve seen te axe community is an enthusiastic bunch! Fantastic.
 
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