I can't obtain a sharp edge with waterstones

S

Sababa

Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
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Like I said in the title, when I use my waterstone (a King 1000/6000) I can't obtain a sharp edge. If I sharp a dull edge only with the waterstone, it doesn't even cut through the paper smoothly, while if I polish a shaving edge with the 6000 side, it cuts worse than before (more difficult shaving the arm hairs).

I can obtain a decent edge (can pop the hairs of arms/legs, sometimes "whittling" hair with difficult) sharpening freehand with the rod of the lansky system, specially with the ceramic one, and I thought to step to the next level of sharpness buying the 6000 stone.

What's the problem in your opinion? Maybe I apply too much pressure cause a I'm used to the hard surface of the ceramic/alox stone?
 
Well I have no experience with Japanese waterstones but I do use Arkansas whetstones. From my limited experience it should be mostly sharp before you even move on to the 1000 grit. I can get a nice edge on medium whetstones which is only ~400 grit I think???? What are you using before moving up to 1000?
 
I have the same problem, when I had my 1k,4k,8k king's I could only create high polished barely shaving sharp edges. I'm sure my problem was most likely related to pressure and technique as each tool will be different but I expected better results than what I got. I've had much better success with natural water stones, its a big market and they can get really expensive, making it harder to select the one you want/need. Part of me wants to blame the stone though because with sandpaper, arkansas, ceramic, diamond, natural water stones, I can easily get far sharper results. Maybe there's a trick to using man made stones, I don't know, but I do know they don't work for me.
 
It could be too much pressure. My Kings are fun to use, but slow-cutting and unforgiving.

The stones also work best when they're as flat as can be (though they also work well when dished).
 
I have that same problem with my 1000/6000 waterstone. It will get the edge decent, but then I go back to the fine spyderco rod laid flat for a few swipes and then strop it about 3 passes. That usually is enough to make hairs pop.
 
I don't have any problems with my KING stones, but in the beginning when I was working out the technique I couldn't get a sharp edge at all.

Maybe on the 6k it could be just a slight misjudged angle and it rolls it ever so slightly? I say just try again and eventually you'll understand what you're doing wrong.
 
I can't get a sharp edge from the king 6k either, but it only takes a few passes on 2.5um diamond loaded balsa to fix it, so I still use it as a polisher.
 
You do know that waterstones require edge-trailing strokes?
 
Bill DeShivs said:
You do know that waterstones require edge-trailing strokes?
Click to expand...

I have never used edge trailing and I get my knives mirror polished and hair whittling without a problem.

As for you mister Sababa I had the same problem when I was first learning on my King 1000/6000. I would go from a medium ceramic to the 6000 and I'd lose all semblance of sharpness. I think you are having the problem I was having. A micro burr. Every time I would strop after my stones they would get sharp. My suggestion is when you are sharpening get a large burr on each side of the bevel, then when you move to the 6000 side sharpen each side individually until there is a tiny burr, then do 25 strokes per side, 15, 10, 5, 3, and alternating strokes for 20 more. It's what I do and I can whittle hair and whatnot.
 
vickmacky said:
Well I have no experience with Japanese waterstones but I do use Arkansas whetstones. From my limited experience it should be mostly sharp before you even move on to the 1000 grit. I can get a nice edge on medium whetstones which is only ~400 grit I think???? What are you using before moving up to 1000?
Click to expand...
I use a cheap hardware shop stone (maybe 120 grit) or the lansky system ones (coarse, medium, fine) and I can obtain a shaving edge with the cheap one too, so it's the waterstone the problem; and judging from the answer I got here I'm not the only one.
crbauhs said:
I have never used edge trailing and I get my knives mirror polished and hair whittling without a problem.

As for you mister Sababa I had the same problem when I was first learning on my King 1000/6000. I would go from a medium ceramic to the 6000 and I'd lose all semblance of sharpness. I think you are having the problem I was having. A micro burr. Every time I would strop after my stones they would get sharp. My suggestion is when you are sharpening get a large burr on each side of the bevel, then when you move to the 6000 side sharpen each side individually until there is a tiny burr, then do 25 strokes per side, 15, 10, 5, 3, and alternating strokes for 20 more. It's what I do and I can whittle hair and whatnot.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, I will try this way, using very light touch.
And thanks everyone that answered, at least I see it's a common "problem" with that stone.

For the edge trailing method, I know it's employed by some great sharpeners like Carter, but I don't think it's the only method to sharpen a knife with a waterstone. :)
 
They don't work worth a ****! for me either. Well, not exactly. My 1200 grit waterstone works OK but nowhere near as well as even my "soft" Arkansas. My Norton waterstones through 4000 grit are almost like-new and I've owned them over a decade. Was just thinking I should break them out and see if I can do any better now.
 
It took me a while, but I finally got a better edge off the King 220/1000 combo stone than I did off a Norton Coarse/Fine India stone. There must be a trick that I finally figured out by accident.
 
Sababa said:
]
Thank you very much, I will try this way, using very light touch.
And thanks everyone that answered, at least I see it's a common "problem" with that stone.
Click to expand...

Let me know how it works out with you after you try it. Once you get the first sharpening done that gets the edge you want everything becomes much easier. Also I suggest watching the Carter Cutlery knife sharpening videos that are on YouTube. Those helped me tweak my technique too.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
You do know that waterstones require edge-trailing strokes?
Click to expand...

That makes sense to me. Pushing the edge first through an abrasive slurry seems like it can only have a deleterious effect on the apex of the edge. I've never been able to get much past a shaving sharp edge on a 6000 grit synthetic waterstone, but then I haven't really tried it in awhile.
 
If you use too much pressure with a waterstone on a push stroke, the edge can actually dig into the soft stone-dulling it. The slurry can also have a detrimental effect.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
If you use too much pressure with a waterstone on a push stroke, the edge can actually dig into the soft stone-dulling it. The slurry can also have a detrimental effect.
Click to expand...

I've noticed this with my Norton's ( 220 & 1000) I just use light pressure and get good results. A 1000 grit stone and a few swipes on a Cro2 loaded strop is as fine as I go with my blades.
 
Sababa said:
Thank you very much, I will try this way, using very light touch.
And thanks everyone that answered, at least I see it's a common "problem" with that stone.
Click to expand...

It'll give great edges. Of that, there's no doubt, but it won't hold your hand the way other stones do.

(off to take everyone's tips and try sharpening on a King 4,000 tonight....)
 
Watch Murray Carter's videos on Youtube. In fact here's one where he fixes some chips and then sharpens a knife. Although he goes thru it pretty quick, it should give you a pretty good idea. If not, get his DVD. He uses the King 1K/6K to sharpen with (and even shaves a little at the end using nothing else).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgPI_Gs117c


cbw
 
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