I Can't Solder! Dang!

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Dec 7, 2000
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Okay guys, try to tell me what I'm getting wrong, if not everything...

I cleaned the slot in the guard and the blade with acetone, doused the joint liberally with flux and began heating the tang and back of the guard. When the flux boiled off I figured I was getting to heat and sure enough eventually the solder began to melt...

But all it did was bead up on the face of the guard - I couldn't get it to flow into the joint to save my life. The fit is not tight at all but not all that sloppy either.

Edit: I should have said, both pieces are O1.

Any ideas? Thanks,
 
Sounds like you did everything right Dave. What kind of finish is on the guard and blade junction? What kind of solder and flux?

The best soldering results I've had were with the paste solder and a cyringe. The main problem that I had was heating everything up too quickly.
 
Bro!!! You are not alone. Needs to be super clean and even heat. Someone told me they where preheating with a heat gun never tried it. :confused:
 
remember, solder will flow to the heat, maybe heat the tang and start the solder from the blade side of the guard, when it melts on the blade side it should flow thru to the tang side.
 
Dave,
You mentioned the flux boiled off. Off means gone?
This is past the point of use, as it's good to go when the flux is liquid.
Then the solder flows in, replacing the liquid flux.
I put the flux on, put small snippets of solder in the flux, and then when the flux flows, the solder will flow right afterward.

Howie
 
Dave,
Get rid of the acetone. Use hot, soapy water or an alcohol based cleaner. I use the pink cleaner that comes with Tool Black.

Not sure what the final finish is on your blade/guard but if it's mirror or high polish, take it down a little. A clean 400-600 grit finish will normally solder fine.

I use an Exacto knife with a #11 blade (sharp pointed) and make a mini soldering iron out of it. Flux the Exacto blade and melt a little solder on it. Now it's ready to use.
Put heat under the guard and tang. Let it get hot and then brush some flux on with an acid brush. Keep the heat on till it turns brown and looks to be drying up. Wipe it off with an acid brush and do the same thing again. This time, when the flux turns dark brown, touch the solder to it. The solder should melt and start to spread along the joint. Don't use too much solder. Now, use the #11 Exacto blade to pull the solder along the joint. Go all the way around the joint, adding solder as needed. You should have a good fill along the joint. If you do, let it cool a little and put more flux on it with the acid brush. This will clean up the excess brown, burned solder. If you don't get a good clean solder joint, repeat the steps above.
After it cools down, wash it good with hot soap and water, and use a neutralizer to kill the flux.

I've always had great luck with the solder and liquid flux that Sheffields Knife Supply sells.

Something else...A lot of makers have quit soldering and use JB Weld.
 
Many times the flux will boil off at a temprature that is too low for good solder adhesion and the solder should be applied again and again. The flux is cleaning the steel surface and may not have the job done with one application. Some times I end up putting more flux on after the guard in soldered because there is one area that didn't stick. It will if the steel is compatible. Another problem may be that either one or both of your flux solder combanation are not compatible with the steel.
 
I forgot something. In preparation I scratch the area to be soldered and clean it with alcohol (the 91% stuff) before the soldering.
 
Dave, I solder all my joints and it sounds to me that you heated the guard to much, I always put the heat below the guard and heat the tang first( I solder blade up and draw from blade side down), as the flux starts to melt good ( I use paste flux, stays in place better for me and I use .022 silver bearing solder from radio shack, being thinner it melts quicker and you don't over apply)) then I heat a little higher to the bottom of the guard, not a lot just some to even out the heat. I hold my solder to the back side of the blade away from the heat and as soon as it starts to melt remove the heat.Also, When I start heating I try to heat both sides evenly. Once I have a good solder line around the joint I drag a rounded 1/8" rod around the melted flux to illiminate any air bubbles. Let stand for a few seconds and then spray down with windex. I wash good with soap/water and then a baking soda solution to make sure the acid is neutralized, rinse really good with hot water and clean up.
I also wipe down with acetone to remove any oil and wash really good with soap and water before starting.

Good Luck

Bill
 
What Kit said, although I use lacquer thinner to do the initial cleaning. Acetone can have oil, or other contaminants in it.

You have to clean the whole area leading up to where the guard goes, the whole handle, and choil, as well as the guard itself.
I then take it into the kitchen and clean with dish detergent, and the hottest water I have, and then use something like 409 cleaner.
You have to do this until the water sheets across the blade when you rinse.
If it's not clean enough, it will bead up, or run in rivulets. Just keep cleaning till it sheets across the work. You will know it when that happens.
95% of solder problems can be attributed to poor cleaning.

After it's clean, don't touch the areas to be soldered, or the tang at all.
If you have to slide the guard up the tang, you don't want to contaminate the inside of it with fingerprint oil, etc.

I use a cotton swab to put a coat of flux inside the guard, and then around the blade where the guard will go, before sliding the guard on. You can put a bit more on then, if you wish.

If the solder turns black while heating, you've burned it, and have to stop, clean it all off and start over.

I heat from the tang, and the bottom, and sides of the guard, moving all the time. You can have a small piece of solder laying along the juncture to see when it gets hot enough, and when it flows, run the solder around the joint, followed by a pick of sorts that has been heated, and has flux on it(I use an old pointed swiss needle file). I just draw that around the joint after. It helps to keep the solder from pulling back, or forming bubbles.
You can get excess off with an acid brush dipped in a bit of flux, and just sweeping, or brushing the excess, still liquid solder off the guard, or you can use steel wool wrapped around a matchstick to wick it off.
All this takes place very quickly, BTW, so have everything ready beforehand.:eek: ;)

Let the joint air cool. Don't run it under water to fast cool, that will lead to a weak solder joint.
Before soldering, I also wrap a damp washcloth around the blade, above the solder line, and hold it on with mechanics wire. Helps keep everything from overheating, and possibly ruining the edge temper.

Of course, the above is with the understanding that you're trying to solder "normal" guard material. If you're talking about 300 series SS, all bets are off. That stuff is almost impossible to solder.:eek: :barf:


Edited to add; I forgot to say, when you get to the point of the solder melting, and you run the solder wire around the top of the joint, don't forget to run it around the bottom.
I always start on top, as I never had any luck with the solder wicking up from below that some claim to do. I just run the solder top, and bottom.

BTW, you have to keep the torch going, and handy, which can provide some interesting moments if your coordination is a bit off. I believe the yuppies call it multi tasking!!;) :D
 
Hmmmm. You''ve already gotten a lot of good advice. I like the idea of using the Exacto knife.
The only thing I do differently is make my own flux. I make a paste of Borax and hot water. When it cools I keep it in a jar and use it as I need.

I agree that it sounds like you are getting it too hot.
 
If you are not using Eutectic then go out and buy some!

I've silver soldered for years and it is the only brand that I can get to consistently work.
 
Peter I believe the Eutectic Greg is referring to is the Eutectic 157 solder. I started using it a couple years ago and really like it. They recommend Eutector flux 157 with this solder. This is a very good solder but kind of pricey. 149.00 per 2# roll the last time I ordered it. Ron
 
I've been using some of the lead-free solders recently (as mandated by the EU... :barf: ). This stuff has a mix of 95·5% tin/3·8% silver/0·7% copper and has a MP of around 420F (another eutectic mix), RS s/n 362-8061 - Radio Spares, not Radio Shack BTW. I use plumbers flux (low temperature stuff) and a titanium wire probe to shove solder when it doesn't want to behave. Clean up & degrease pre soldering with denatured alcohol...

Seems to work OK. Well, except with 304 - and now I know why :)

Peter
 
R.Duncan said:
Peter I believe the Eutectic Greg is referring to is the Eutectic 157 solder. I started using it a couple years ago and really like it. They recommend Eutector flux 157 with this solder. This is a very good solder but kind of pricey. 149.00 per 2# roll the last time I ordered it. Ron

Yes...this is it but they sell it in much smaller quantities thru Koval Knives. Comes with the flux in a small bottle for around $15.

I just soldered a stainless guard to an L6 blade with no problems.
 
Greg Covington said:
If you are not using Eutectic then go out and buy some!

I've silver soldered for years and it is the only brand that I can get to consistently work.

I wholeheartedly concur, Mr. President! :eek:

I bought a roll of this last year and paid $139 for it. I gotta say its pricey, but it really works well on stainless.
 
I'm using the licqid Flux and using a q-tip to paint it in where i want it.
kit and Mike somed up the rest purty good. same as sweating pipes
it will suck to the heat with pipe we'd heat the top and suck it up hill to make sure we got it all. :) Dave it sounds like a cold tang to me :)
if you use the past flux add it before puting it togther if you're not?
if it's a loose fit you can tin it first.


I'm on a diifferant Puter tonight at Micky-D's 30 miles away how cool is that :D I wife is in her masters Class to night :rolleyes: :)
 
Pricey smicey. If it works. it's good. I use Silverloy and it works....It can be temperamental though. I have enough temperamental in my life already.
 
Well men, thanks for all the advice - and the commiseration! :D I always get all nervous and fidgetey when I'm gonna solder something, and for good reason. It never works. :rolleyes:

But from all the feedback I suspect what my problems are.

First, probably not clean enough. Seems like acetone would do the job but I'm gonna try some hot soapy water with a stiff brush and see what I can get. Then I'm gonna use some paste solder and apply it in the joint before assembly. And then I'm going to heat the tang more, a lay some chips of solder around the joint as I begin heating everything up. I had a pointy needle file to try to pull the solder but there was no flux on it and the solder didn't stick to it very well either.

I think my major problem was that the guard got too hot and I didn't get the tang hot enough. This is based on the boiling flux, etc. Although, I did get a nice straw color on the ricasso which tells me it should've been at least 400.

Anyway I'll clean that mess up and try again in the morning.

Thanks for all the help,
 
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