I don't know what I did to this edge!!!!!!

BenLong1018

BenLong1018

Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
1,668
I got a Kershaw Tilt today and it wasn't as sharp as I would like it to be. So I pulled out the sharpmaker and started on the fine stones for a good while then the ultra fines, and then the strop. I then of course tried a paper cut test which really did not go well at all. I then continued on the fines and then ultra fines again. I eventually realized that my edge is almost as dull as a butter knife. I decided to then go through the stones again except this time I started with the medium stones. Now I'm taking a break because I'm extremely frustrated.

I'm really not sure what I did to my edge. I'm not exactly new at this, I've been putting great edges on knives with the sharpmaker for over a year now. Could this be the Vanax 75 steel? Or is it me? Please help.
 
Did you ever get a burr worked up? If you didn't get a good burr, you probably don't have to two sides meeting at the edge.

*Disclaimer: I know nothing about how the sharpmaker works, but i've had this problem with other sharpening methods
 
BenLong1018 said:
Yes there is a burr.
Click to expand...

I had this problem with a cold steel knife, i fixed it by doing the back bevil on the edge of the coarse stone for 50 strokes, then 25 each for side coarse stone edge coarse stone side fine edge coarse.
Its worth a try for ya
 
You're probably not apexing the edge. Are you using the 30 degree or the 40 degree? I ask because you probably won't apex the edge quickly at the 30 degree setting. Mark up the edge from tip to ricasso with a sharpie and try again. You should be seeing the ink removed at the edge...surely with 40...not so surely, nor nearly so quickly, with the 30 degree. Regardless, stay with the brown stones until you get the edge apexed...noticeable when all the ink is gone from the edge. Then mark it up again and go to the finer stones. Just keep repeating and you'll get it.

Factory edges are notoriously obtuse and one of the primary challenges with the Sharpmaker is indexing to the exact settings of 30 or 40 degrees. What I do is use diamond plates and knock that secondary bevel down to around 25 or so degrees. Then I either put a 30 or a 40 degree microbevel on there, depending on the intended use. I call this "indexing"...getting your edge in sync with the Sharpmaker first and then touchs ups remain easy thereafter. I suspect you are trying to touch up let's say a 45 degree edge with a tool that offers only 40 or 30...so you're not indexing with your tool. The Sharpmaker is a fantastic tool but it is ill suited to reshaping an obtuse bevel...at least ill suited to doing so quickly. It'll take a month of Sundays with some of the harder, tougher steels...I mean a very long time.

So the answer is probably that YOU have done nothing to your edge. The factory basically handed you a rather obtuse edge. Nothing a little time and elbow grease won't work out for you.
 
As mentioned, the burr is really the key. If you raise a burr the full length of both sides, and you can flip it from one side to the other, then you only need to remove the burr properly and your edge will be very sharp. You should be able to feel the burr as it flips from side to side. Not to bust your chops, but I don't think it's possible to raise a burr on both sides, properly remove it and be left with an edge only butter-knife sharp.

Another possibility is that you are not stropping properly. Stropping, if not done correctly, can dull an edge.

3V is difficult to sharpen. I'm surprised the Sharpmaker stones do much at all. Those fine stones are meant for an edge that is already somewhat sharp and properly profiled to match one of the Sharpmaker settings.
 
My advice to you would be to take a break and try to sharpen your knife later. I have found out over my years of sharpening knives that there are just certain days that something is off and I just cant do anything with a dull edge, but when I come back and try the next day I can get a razor edge with no problem. If your frustrated it will only compound the problem. I hope this helps.
 
Specs from Larrin - Vanax 75: C 0.2, N 4.2, Si 0.3, Mn 0.2, Cr 21.2, Mo 1.3, V 9

The 9% of Vanadium is most likely the cause of your frustration - VN is hard and tough. Without more details/pics of the edge, I am think you've a nasty wire edge from the ceramic rod burnished, instead of abraded, the edge. It's ridiculously difficult to remove such wire from stropping, especially on bare or non-diamond/cbn loaded leather. If this is the case and willing the try a 'lemonade' recipe using what you have, then let's make it sharp.
 
HoosierQ said:
You're probably not apexing the edge. Are you using the 30 degree or the 40 degree? I ask because you probably won't apex the edge quickly at the 30 degree setting. Mark up the edge from tip to ricasso with a sharpie and try again. You should be seeing the ink removed at the edge...surely with 40...not so surely, nor nearly so quickly, with the 30 degree. Regardless, stay with the brown stones until you get the edge apexed...noticeable when all the ink is gone from the edge. Then mark it up again and go to the finer stones. Just keep repeating and you'll get it.

Factory edges are notoriously obtuse and one of the primary challenges with the Sharpmaker is indexing to the exact settings of 30 or 40 degrees. What I do is use diamond plates and knock that secondary bevel down to around 25 or so degrees. Then I either put a 30 or a 40 degree microbevel on there, depending on the intended use. I call this "indexing"...getting your edge in sync with the Sharpmaker first and then touchs ups remain easy thereafter. I suspect you are trying to touch up let's say a 45 degree edge with a tool that offers only 40 or 30...so you're not indexing with your tool. The Sharpmaker is a fantastic tool but it is ill suited to reshaping an obtuse bevel...at least ill suited to doing so quickly. It'll take a month of Sundays with some of the harder, tougher steels...I mean a very long time.

So the answer is probably that YOU have done nothing to your edge. The factory basically handed you a rather obtuse edge. Nothing a little time and elbow grease won't work out for you.
Click to expand...

I have been using the 40 degree. I think you're right I just need to take some more time and work it out.
 
bluntcut said:
Specs from Larrin - Vanax 75: C 0.2, N 4.2, Si 0.3, Mn 0.2, Cr 21.2, Mo 1.3, V 9

The 9% of Vanadium is most likely the cause of your frustration - VN is hard and tough. Without more details/pics of the edge, I am think you've a nasty wire edge from the ceramic rod burnished, instead of abraded, the edge. It's ridiculously difficult to remove such wire from stropping, especially on bare or non-diamond/cbn loaded leather. If this is the case and willing the try a 'lemonade' recipe using what you have, then let's make it sharp.
Click to expand...
Well I use green and white stropping compound.
 
backerspit said:
My advice to you would be to take a break and try to sharpen your knife later. I have found out over my years of sharpening knives that there are just certain days that something is off and I just cant do anything with a dull edge, but when I come back and try the next day I can get a razor edge with no problem. If your frustrated it will only compound the problem. I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Good idea.
 
Where else could you get this kind of quality blade advice so quickly? :) :thumbup:
 
this also happened to me while sharpening my CS lawman until i realized that the bevel was not equal on both sides.
 
How much pressure are you using and are you using the corners or the flats of your stones?

I once had a knife that I was having a devil of a time sharpening on the Sharpmaker because I was using the corners with too much pressure and it was a very hard blade steel with large carbides. I was basically chipping it out as I sharpened.
 
TTpower said:
this also happened to me while sharpening my CS lawman until i realized that the bevel was not equal on both sides.
Click to expand...

As long as you form the apex correctly, your edge will be sharp even if your bevels are unequal. Take a chisel grind or a chisel edge, those can get pretty darn sharp and those bevels are far from equal.
 
TTpower said:
this also happened to me while sharpening my CS lawman until i realized that the bevel was not equal on both sides.
Click to expand...

Yep same here with the CS Recon 1. Bevels are not only notoriously obtuse, they are notoriously unequal. I have a nice Spyderco that was indexed perfectly on one side and not even close on the other. Now I am not perfect either...I don't think my free-handed bevels are perfect. But I purposely take them down below 30 so that indexing with my chosen touch up tool, the Sharpmaker, is easy. I touch up often. For example I do leather craft. My general purpose knife is a Mora #1. When I am working, I set up the Sharpmaker with the white stone set at 30 degrees. I will give it 20 strokes on each side several times during a session with a lot of cutting. My EDCs get a touch up once a week (or two) depending and what's been going on.
 
singularity35 said:
As long as you form the apex correctly, your edge will be sharp even if your bevels are unequal. Take a chisel grind or a chisel edge, those can get pretty darn sharp and those bevels are far from equal.
Click to expand...

how do you know if form the correct apex ?
 
That's where the Sharpie comes in. If you remove all the ink right down to the edge on both sides and don't have a big old burr piled up, you've apexed the edge. Magnification also helps. I have a magnifying glass which is just allright. Some people use loupes and microscopes with much greater magnification. An apexed edge is, by definition I suppose, one where the planes of both bevels (both sides) intersect in a single curved line along the edge (a straight line I suppose if we're talking wharncliff). In other words both of the bevels meet at the very edge. No realistically, that edge will have some thickness (and thus not be a line geometrically speaking) but if you can't see any width to the edge itself with magnification, you have an apex.

Failing to achieve an apexed edge along the entire edge is probably the single biggest problem for new sharpeners. It is also what happens when a sharp knife gets dull. That apex is just a few molecules of steel wide if you've done your job right and it either wears off, leaving metal on what you've cut, chips off, or rolls over...thus taking away a nice straight crisp apex. The other big problem is getting a big burr and leaving it. A burr is shards of metal raised up by the abrasive still hanging off the edge. When first formed, it can seem very sharp but those shards break off quickly and dull the edge. A burr, while part of the process of getting an apexed edge, can fool you. You gotta get that off of there. Imagine a burr as being like one of those crazy punk spikey mohawks that people wear...standing straight up from what may or may not be an apex.
 
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