I don't think my 1084 is 1084

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nmbarta

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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This is supposed to be 15n20 core with 1084 cladding. I decided to use this for cladding because I was having trouble getting it to harden. I didn't get this from AKS like I usually do because they were out of what I needed at the time. Anyway, the 15n20 is etching faster than the "1084". I thought that was odd so I cleaned it up a little bit and dropped it in my coffee. The 1084 normally turns black and the 15n20 stays clean unless I leave it in too long. I left this in way too long so the 15n20 is coloring up and the 1084 is still pretty clean. Bummer....I made three billets of this. I have no clue what it is but it isn't like any 1084 I've ever worked with
 

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Bummer!
If you got it from NJSB their steel has the reputation for needing to be heated really hot to break down the course spheroid structure...
That being said, you'd think that forge welding would meet those parameters...

Are you sure you got the "1084" on the outside?
 
nmbarta said:
This is supposed to be 15n20 core with 1084 cladding. I decided to use this for cladding because I was having trouble getting it to harden. I didn't get this from AKS like I usually do because they were out of what I needed at the time. Anyway, the 15n20 is etching faster than the "1084". I thought that was odd so I cleaned it up a little bit and dropped it in my coffee. The 1084 normally turns black and the 15n20 stays clean unless I leave it in too long. I left this in way too long so the 15n20 is coloring up and the 1084 is still pretty clean. Bummer....I made three billets of this. I have no clue what it is but it isn't like any 1084 I've ever worked with
Click to expand...
Are you 100 % sure that 15n20 is core not cladding ?
 
Yes.... I'm 100 percent sure. The 15n20 I have is from AKS and has been excellent. The reason I know I'm sure is that I don't even have 15n20 cladding that is the thickness of this 1084 cladding. I know the core is 15n20 because it won't turn black in the coffe....it turns same color it always does. I threw it back in the ferric chloride for a while.....they are etching at almost the exact same speed....no contrast. Core is etching slightly faster but can barely feel the line with a fingernail. The stuff I got looks way different than what I get from AKS....more mill scale....it looks like a36 but it does harden to some degree so it's not......I don't want to name the supplier. I'll just stick with AKS after this.....saving a buck or two means nothing when something like this happens....I don't even think it was any cheaper. Glad it wasn't 600+ layer damascus!!!!
 
It looks like the cladding is pretty thin with spots of the core showing in spots. I had a similar thing happen with a 26C3 core with SS cladding. By the time I'd finished grinding the cladding was very thing, and etched darkish, but not as dark as the 26C3 did. I was told I overheated during forge welding that caused carbon from core to migrate to the very inside of the cladding. When I ground the cladding so it was only a very thin layer it exposed the thin portion where the carbon migrated to.

Could it be some of the Ni from the 15N20 migrated from core to the 1084 cladding and a really thin layer of 1084 cladding would have the Ni and not etch dark as it should? I'm not saying that's what happened, just asking from the real experts if it's possible
 
Yes I ground it down quite a bit. Cladding started at 1/8" core started at 3/32







. I drilled some holes part way through the cladding and then forged them flat....looking for lots of movement at the transition..and some holes. Just an experiment. The cladding on the spine is still thicker than the core.







I've made several billets the same way and have never seen this. The only thing I can think of is that my 1084 is not 1084. It obviously got up to weld Temps several times. It was normalized at 1700 for 5 minutes, then 1500, then 1350, then 1470 and into parks 50. I would think even if
it was heavy spheriod it should have been plenty hot to normalize. Would it resist the etch in that form? Maybe I didn't get it hot enough?
 
Check to see if that material is hardenable, if it is low carbon, it won’t etch very well.

Ferrite doesn’t etch well. Carbon is what is left on the surface of the steel to make it dark after the iron is etched away.

Hoss
 
It does harden, but doesn't seem to get glass hard. I wouldn't say my file bites into it, but it doesn't scate Like it should.







It turns black in the etch and is etching at basically the same rate as 15n20. Normally I can etch this for 2 minutes...clean and etch for two more minutes and I can feel the transition with a fingernail. I've etched this for about 15 minutes now and still can barely feel the transition....it's almost perfectly smooth. Very little contrast in the color, but it's there.
 
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