I don't use stropping/mirror edges that much anymore to keep my knives in shape

[zyhano]

So, after going to most of the possible sharpening disorder stages - basic sharpmaker basic, waterstones, sharpmaker UF, sandpaper, strops with Cr2O3, dmt diafolds, spyderco doublestuff, fallkniven dc4, finer sandpaper, finer waterstones, grinder, file, the whole dmt collection, strops with dmt diapaste, spyderco benchstone, cheap stones, more cheap stones etc and using it on all kinds of metal - I was in the habit of stropping a lot and getting my edges with a good mirror polish on it.

Recently I started to do quick touchups on UUF dmt or spyderco UF or waterstone 10K kind of things and stopped with a lot of the stropping.

I find that I like that a lot more. For me the stropped edges lost that amazingly sharp edge pretty quickly and that only made me go back to the strop a lot. Once you have that level of sharpness, everything that gets duller becomes something you can't really stand. And then you have to fix it again, only to lose that extreme sharpness pretty quickly.

The quick touchups on the stones actually feel good, the tactile feedback is something I do like a bit better than the feedback on the strops. On top of that, I can 'rub' more with the stones, go back and forth etc as opposed to only going one direction with the strop. I guess there's just more techniques I can use with stones than with the strops.

Also, the knives are still pretty sharp, I never accept anything less than easily shaving arm hair for my knives. But the gradual loss in sharpness is less noticeable since they start off a little less sharp than if I go the whole way with strops as the final step.

A small spyderco sharpmaker rod or dmt diafold is easy to use and to touch a knife up, with results coming pretty quickly in about a minute or less.

For the moment, I'm absolutely happy with temporarily retiring my strops.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I think I'll use the strops every now and then again, especially when I'm putting on an initial mirror edge, but the coming time I'm fine the way it is.

It will also save me from taking a lot of these strops with me on my summer holidays I think my girlfriend will like this too lol

cheers

 

[HeavyHanded]

Honestly, I maintain my knives almost exclusively with strops now. Then again, the strop that gets the most use is 220grit with the 600 grit coming in a close second...not very "mirror polished". I can see where you're coming from, completely polishing the grind texture doesn't do much for longevity and adds another step to the process. Essential for shaving etc, but kind of a bother for day to day stuff.
HH

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

The main reason I continue to keep my edges in 'stropping shape', is simply to minimize the removal of metal from the edge. If it means I strop a little more often, that's fine with me. It's a relaxing process, too. I find that I tend to focus more clearly when I do it, and it really clears my mind. On the occasion that the edge needs a little more attention, I'll 'strop' with some sandpaper. Occasionally, I'll use a diamond hone to reset a bevel that's not quite to my liking. But, beyond that, virtually all my maintenance gets done using 2 strops (with & without compound) and a couple pieces of 1000/2000 grit paper.

Edited to add:
Based on my long-established habit of tailoring my sharpening gear for using free-hand (no bench or table), my strop blocks are a little more portable than the bench blocks many use. This influences why I still find it convenient to maintain my knives with my strop blocks. They're sized for holding in one hand (about 5-1/2" x 2-1/2" x 1/2" thick), while holding the knife in the other, so that automatically makes 'em a little more 'travel-friendly', if I choose to take 'em with me. I can put two blocks and the necessary pieces of sandpaper in a single, quart-sized zip-loc bag. If I were looking to go even lighter, I'd leave the bare strop at home, and just take the compounded strop and the sandpaper. One step further, I could simply mount the bare & compounded leather on the opposite sides of the same block. Now that I mention it, I think I will.

 

[foxx]

For me, it depends on the knife. I do still strop, but spend less time doing that. I touch up things as needed, but the heavy use machetes, axe heads, and field knives are getting a toothier edge usually.

 

[Never Dull]

Somewhat like foxx above, I tend to strop my higher value blades more than my hard use blades. To me there is nothing more satisfying than a high quality blade with a mirror edge. Jussayin....

 

[Noctis3880]

I feel the strops have their place, particularly with kitchen knives which only see fruit, vegetable, and boneless meat cutting. With light use, a stropped edge should keep that sharpness pretty well.

 

[stitchawl]

For me, stropping is enjoyment, not necessity. I have no "need" of edges that sharp, but it's a relaxing process that I can do while surfing the Net. As I never feel the need to strop more than 20-30 strokes, it's a very quick touch-up to my EDC. I don't strop kitchen knives or heavy choppers, only my pocket folders, and usually only use the same EDC knife for daily chores. Not a heck of a lot of work to keep it sharp.

(Maybe I should switch to paper wheels? LOL!)


Stitchawl

 

[eccvets]

use a slotted paper wheel to get back that sharp edge quickly. just cuz you dont like to waste your time stroping doesnt mean you should not have the sharpest edge possible.

 

[Skimo]

I only strop after using the stones, after that, I use until unacceptable then use the stones and strop again.

I find that about 600 grit is good for most every day tasks (a lot of cardboard)

 

[Jason B.]

I've been doing the same, I use my EEF DMT and a 6k arashiyama waterstone for my finishing. After some playing around I found that the marginal increase in sharpness was not worth all the extra effort. I can split hairs with the EEF and shave my face with the finish from the waterstone so I call it good at that.

 

[Ankerson]

For my kitchen knives I use Norton Med and Fine 3" x 8" India stones and find they work great in the kitchen and they cut like crazy, it only take mins to resharpen because they cut fast.

For the rest I have been using the 600 Grit stone off the Edge Pro and find that to be what I like the best, also my Customs that I use in the kitchen.

 

[peppercorn]

Maybe it's the fact that it's summer and I have alot less time but for whatever reason I too have been stropping less and less.
I do have a question though, a dilemma I always debate over when the time comes.

When you do resharpen, after the dents and rolls start to appear on an edc for example, how far back do you go in the grits?

I've gone back to the EEF ony to find I should have gone back further, say to fine maybe. Just curious as to how you guys approach this.

 

[softrockrenegade]

I recently started exclusively using the brown sharpmaker stones as my final edge and prefer the way the slightly toothier edge performs for me! Just seems to cut better for my uses, touches up much easier and holds a working edge longer for me than the white stones . Especially on steels like s30v and D2 !

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Maybe it's the fact that it's summer and I have alot less time but for whatever reason I too have been stropping less and less.
I do have a question though, a dilemma I always debate over when the time comes.

When you do resharpen, after the dents and rolls start to appear on an edc for example, how far back do you go in the grits?

I've gone back to the EEF ony to find I should have gone back further, say to fine maybe. Just curious as to how you guys approach this.

I think you're on the right track. Getting a feel for selecting the appropriate grit for the amount of repair needed, will come with experience. I approach it the same way, by starting light and then taking gradual steps back if needed. No point in starting too low in grit, and removing more metal than necessary. Starting too low also means more work to be done to get back to your original finish. Another big factor is the physical size of the blade, how much metal actually has to be removed. Most of the knives I use are mid-to-small size folders (4" blades or less, generally not thicker than 1/8" at the spine). A big, thick blade might justify using a coarser grit to get started. For my knives, I generally don't need to go below about 400-600 grit (wet/dry sandpaper). In terms of the metal removal and resulting finish produced, that might be on par with a Coarse/Fine DMT diamond hone. Again, start light and then take a step back if needed. It won't take long to develop an instinct for what your edge needs, based on how it looks/performs.

 

[unit]

Some food for thought....

I am finding that:

when it comes to sharpening there are many variables (duh).
when it comes to "sharp" there are many definitions (duh).
when it comes to performance there are many definitions/expectations (duh).
when it comes to expectations there are many differences (duh).
when it comes to stropping there are actually a few different techniques...
when it comes to the foundation that is built prior to stropping (or perhaps with the strop), there are variables

and when it comes to steel composition and heat treat, there are a LOT of variables.

The last three may not be so obvious to some (thus the omission of the "duh"), but it may be something to consider.

I have learned that not all edges "finished on a strop with 0.5 micron compound" are the same...actually there are CONSIDERABLE differences that are dependent on the preceding steps! Stack the numerous other variables on top of that and I can easily understand why there is at times very little agreement on some of these topics.

The concept that I frequently return to is that taking steps backward (and perhaps sideways...and forward) once in a while and improving on many different areas of the edge forming/finishing process is critical to further the learning. There may be some that feel they have nothing further to learn, but I am not one of those people

 

[zyhano]

thanks for all your responses guys, appreciate it!
I can add, that I will still go all the way to a mirror edge with strops when I do need the absolute best edge I can get. I'm practicing for the 2012 bladesports competition and notice the difference with a mirror edge a big time

Honestly, I maintain my knives almost exclusively with strops now. Then again, the strop that gets the most use is 220grit with the 600 grit coming in a close second...not very "mirror polished". I can see where you're coming from, completely polishing the grind texture doesn't do much for longevity and adds another step to the process. Essential for shaving etc, but kind of a bother for day to day stuff.
HH

Yes, the longevity of the process is what is starting to bother me. I like the way you approach stropping with lower grits. Do you use compounds? It's more or less the same as going the sandpaper route right?

The main reason I continue to keep my edges in 'stropping shape', is simply to minimize the removal of metal from the edge. If it means I strop a little more often, that's fine with me. It's a relaxing process, too.
..
One step further, I could simply mount the bare & compounded leather on the opposite sides of the same block. Now that I mention it, I think I will.

minimizing metal removal is a good point. an EEF dmt is of the same particle size as the pastes so should not remove that much metal too. Finishing with high grit, but no strop, gives you a very sharp edge on a benchstone/non stropping medium and will not remove that much metal also. I also think stropping is relaxing and I like it for that. The sharpening process in general is just something I like I guess and these days I can happily skip the step. The 'I want to strop' feeling will probably come and go in waves

For me, it depends on the knife. I do still strop, but spend less time doing that. I touch up things as needed, but the heavy use machetes, axe heads, and field knives are getting a toothier edge usually.

I agree that it depends on use and for me, most usage is the same. either outdoors or EDC knives.

Somewhat like foxx above, I tend to strop my higher value blades more than my hard use blades. To me there is nothing more satisfying than a high quality blade with a mirror edge. Jussayin....

Absolutely, a mirror V edge or a nice convex edge is beautiful. With fine stones, the mirror edge stays pretty intact without stropping

I feel the strops have their place, particularly with kitchen knives which only see fruit, vegetable, and boneless meat cutting. With light use, a stropped edge should keep that sharpness pretty well.

Yes, they have their place, I'll be the last to say they don't. I don't have any dedicated kitchen knives other than a spyderco mule and the regular kitchen things, which I keep sharp for my gf but I'm not that much into cooking and probably therefore also not in keeping kitchen knives extremely sharp. But it's a joy to just go through fruit like it's nothing :thumbup:

For me, stropping is enjoyment, not necessity. I have no "need" of edges that sharp, but it's a relaxing process that I can do while surfing the Net. As I never feel the need to strop more than 20-30 strokes, it's a very quick touch-up to my EDC. I don't strop kitchen knives or heavy choppers, only my pocket folders, and usually only use the same EDC knife for daily chores. Not a heck of a lot of work to keep it sharp.

(Maybe I should switch to paper wheels? LOL!)


Stitchawl

I have those TV strops too Stitch, you know that eventually we all must try the paper wheels lol the seed has already been planted and we're all watching it grow here on BF

use a slotted paper wheel to get back that sharp edge quickly. just cuz you dont like to waste your time stroping doesnt mean you should not have the sharpest edge possible.

yes, thank you. I am able to get a very sharp edge on the sharpmaker rods freehand (yes, I'm referring to your other post ) and am not totally convinced the wheels will do better. Don't forget that the paper wheels are actually a very very very verrryyyyy long benchstone/strop and will remove more metal than handsharpening methods.
As I said, the seed has been planted

I only strop after using the stones, after that, I use until unacceptable then use the stones and strop again.

I find that about 600 grit is good for most every day tasks (a lot of cardboard)

yes, rougher stones and stropping is a combo I like too. But I do like those mirror edges a lot too. I don't have many knives that are finished like that unless they are have factory edges.

I've been doing the same, I use my EEF DMT and a 6k arashiyama waterstone for my finishing. After some playing around I found that the marginal increase in sharpness was not worth all the extra effort. I can split hairs with the EEF and shave my face with the finish from the waterstone so I call it good at that.

Yes, absolutely, the extra effort is where the work is. the payoff is not big enough. I do like the experience I have gained by going through all the playing around with different strops and stuff. As I said, I guess I will come back to the strops every know and then. Especially so for my str8 razors and my 'high value' knives like the sebenza etc.

For my kitchen knives I use Norton Med and Fine 3" x 8" India stones and find they work great in the kitchen and they cut like crazy, it only take mins to resharpen because they cut fast.

For the rest I have been using the 600 Grit stone off the Edge Pro and find that to be what I like the best, also my Customs that I use in the kitchen.

Lol, we all know that you and knifenut between the two of you must have stropped twice around the world already It's just a matter of being practical right?

Maybe it's the fact that it's summer and I have alot less time but for whatever reason I too have been stropping less and less.
I do have a question though, a dilemma I always debate over when the time comes.

When you do resharpen, after the dents and rolls start to appear on an edc for example, how far back do you go in the grits?

I've gone back to the EEF ony to find I should have gone back further, say to fine maybe. Just curious as to how you guys approach this.

I think obsessed with edges said it all :thumbup:
I also take a few quick swipes with the finest I think might do the job, if it doesn't I go down one grit size. I found that if I approached it that way I learned it pretty quickly, plus you're always on the safe side.
I also experienced that finer grits can definitely remove a lot of metal as well, especially so on softer steels.

I recently started exclusively using the brown sharpmaker stones as my final edge and prefer the way the slightly toothier edge performs for me! Just seems to cut better for my uses, touches up much easier and holds a working edge longer for me than the white stones . Especially on steels like s30v and D2 !

I'll start trying that next, going to rougher grits as you and some other suggested. See what it does for me.

No point in starting too low in grit, and removing more metal than necessary. Starting too low also means more work to be done to get back to your original finish.

:thumbup:

Some food for thought....

duh!

 

[Ben Dover]

Most of my stropping is now done with balsa wood on the Edge-Pro using CBN and diamond sprays.

After the 15,000 grit Shapton, the balsa stropping with compound improves the sharpness of my edges considerably. :thumbup:

The blade steel, edge angle, and useage of the knife will determine the degree of sharpness I find acceptable. On most Euro and American made kitchen knives, I "finish" with the 2000 grit Shapton stone. My EDC knives, of S90V, ZDP 189 and CPM M-4, get the mirror polish treatment all the way to the .125 micron CBN level. Hunting knives receive similar attention. Of course, I sharpen for enjoyment, and I realize this level of sharpening isn't really necessary except for things like microtomes.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I think part of the reason I still like to strop is, it keeps my hands in shape for the whole process in general. I've mentioned this before, but it came as a pleasant surprise to me, after I'd been 'obsessing' over learning to strop correctly, I found that it made a big difference when I decided to start freehanding on the 'hard' hones as well. The 'muscle memory' I developed from stropping, helped a lot in maintaining correct angle & pressure on the other hones. Using the strops more frequently gives my hands plenty of 'exercise', while also minimizing the metal removal. So, in addition to keeping my blades sharp, it sort of helps keep me 'sharp' too. That's how I see it.

 

[Ankerson]

Lol, we all know that you and knifenut between the two of you must have stropped twice around the world already It's just a matter of being practical right?

It's really what I have found that works best for me through testing and use.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Honestly, I maintain my knives almost exclusively with strops now. Then again, the strop that gets the most use is 220grit with the 600 grit coming in a close second...not very "mirror polished". I can see where you're coming from, completely polishing the grind texture doesn't do much for longevity and adds another step to the process. Essential for shaving etc, but kind of a bother for day to day stuff.
HH

Yes, the longevity of the process is what is starting to bother me. I like the way you approach stropping with lower grits. Do you use compounds? It's more or less the same as going the sandpaper route right?

Technically they're compounds, but pieced together from a number of sources. A bunch of years back we had a program at work attempting to back-lap helical cutter assemblies. As a result I inherited a number of "stropping compounds" from .1 micron diamond paste up to 120grit reel mower compound. I wound up using the diamond pastes and some of the aluminum oxide slurries for my own nefarious purposes, as well as using the mower compound on my own reel mower. At the time my work use of a knife was somewhat brutal - a serious dose of clay coated papers, banding straps, wiring insulation, tyraps etc. I found (and everyone's experience is going to differ here) that a high polish edge croaked in short order, going from shaving the fuzz off the underside of my jaw to unable to pushcut paper sometimes in as little as several days. I needed a different strategy and started going down the scale instead of further up. Longevity under my use conditions lengthened considerably, but it always bugged me that a coarse edge as I was producing them was always somewhere on a curve from sharp to blunt, and couldn't be maintained at a steady level. Back to the stone if I didn't like it, there was no other way to maintain it. Fast forward to about a year ago and I finally tried to strop the coarse edge with a larger grit, thinking if everything is just a question of scale, then this should work. I tried it and it does. A few of my EDU knives are in the 120 grit range stropped on 120 and they cut very well (crosscut newsprint with a pushcut but still sport a lot of tooth) and last longer than ever - no burrs or hanging bits of metal - they look just like a finer edge but for scale. Most of my EDU stuff is done a bit finer, but generally I stop the process at 400 grit for grinding and 600 grit for stropping. Anything finer and the edge will need all kinds of TLC should it get dinged or blunted, and an edge in this range can actually be made to shave whiskers and easily crosscut newspaper but still be brought back to life with a few passes on the black compound. Or if needed it can be stropped on the 220 grit compound and then then a few passes on the black and its back in business. I'm astonished at how useful it is (for me) to have a range of stropping grits for maintenance. Any lapidary supply house has SiC grits from 40 all the way up to 1200 (which produces a very polished edge, much finer than most folks would expect from the stated particle size), and they are very inexpensive. If one needs a bit more zip, diamond grit comes in jumbo sizes as well. It does work easier with convex edges, but a V edge can be maintained using this method if one accepts a bit of convexing over time - nothing much more than it gets from being free-hand sharpened anyway.

I don't equate this to just using sandpaper. IME even off the 2000 grit paper there will still be residual burrs that need to be eliminated with a loose grit of some sort. Some folks use sandpaper or lapping film as a sub for stropping, but to me they're still a fixed abrasive and therefore not suitable for "finishing" and edge. No doubt a fine result can be obtained, but to me its not the best way to go -strops are cheap and compound is cheaper.

As a side benefit of my large grit stropping, my understanding of exactly what goes on when stropping has been enhanced quite a bit. I'm not going to throw my hat into the ring for a hair whittling contest, but I can reliably produce tree-topping sharp edges which is more than good enough for me -still haven't passed a HHT, but did pushcut toilet paper using a 120grit edge (at a sub 20 degree inclusive bevel) something that wouldn't be possible without the appropriate sized stropping materials. As you say, the mirror edges may require more TLC for day to day stuff than they give back in performance, but in general, stropping as a method of maintenance is essential IMHO.

Sorry for the essay, but some stuff doesn't have a short form.

HH