I Dreamed I talked To Stephen Hawking

M

munk

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For those of you who don't know, (and there was a recent TV program about this) Stephen Hawking is the guy in the wheelchair, the DR. Strangelove of physics, who over 30 years ago proposed all matter and information of matter was lost in Black Holes. It took 30 years, but a contest was won, and with a extensive mathmatic proof, Hawking was 'proved' wrong. Matter was not lost: it was smeared at the even horizan of a black hole.

This wasn't too big a deal when we only had a couple black holes. Then they found millions. Ulp. Imagine not only winking out of existence; but never being born. Now you got it. Nothing is real, Strawberry Fields.

OK. Hawking took his time, (and time was running out- he was supposed to be dead years ago with Lou Gerigs (sic) disease) and decided the critics were right: Black holes do not destroy matter, well, at least, in every other universe. There's a bunch of pararel universes, and every other one has matter destroyed. Balances out.


He has no proof for this.

I dreamed Hawking was speaking before a college audience, of all things, a Christian fundementalist institution. I had no more business there than Stephen.

At any rate, we got to the part in the lecture where all our lives were erased, matter gone, and I raised my hand.

"Stephen," I said, "The Soul has no weight, no matter, and is not destroyed."

This created quite a stir. Mr. Hawking wanted to quantify the Soul. The audience was outraged there was no God in Hawking's physical universe.
He did approach me afterwards, wanting to know my source for such a idea. Thought it up all by myself, I said. What a waste, Stephen thought, he could have been a physicist.

In the dream I bought some beer, was given a sheriff's badge by the local cop, and went to a gypsy's house before heading home. Home wasn't home; there was another woman there entirely. Well, it doesn't really matter, does it, if all matter is destroyed??
I ate a crumb donut.

munk

PS: I think his name is Actually Hawkings, with an s. Though it can't possibly be significant now, I've added this.
-- Wrong again! No S. This way, that way: any way!!! All matter is lost and it makes no difference....there may even be small black holes amongst us....no, I'm not kidding.
 
Reminds me of the BBC program i saw on the net awhile back that talked about time travel and how it would be possible to go forward but not backward....well that is unless you spun the universe...or another tube (which would require pretty much moving star systems in order to go back a few hours).
No what they have "figured out" is that computing speed must increase up and up and up like it is right now. So much in fact that it would be easier for our future generations to make a time simulation that would be populated with exact copies of thier ancestors so that they could visit the past in that regard. The sims would be so fleshed out that they would not even know that they were sims. The probability that you are the "original" is something like one in several billion. How's that for making you feel small?
Then contrast that to the crack-pot i read about that thinks that the asteroid belt between mars and jupiter was actually a planet once that was nothing but oceans. What happened, according to him, was that a race of fugitives made a base on said planet...only they didn't make a REAL base there. Just a phony one. The real one was on earth. However, the aliens chasing them bought their trick and destroyed the water planet and all that water rained to earth in the form of the Biblical Flood. Also, God(s) is/are (an)alien(s), and we are the hybrid 2.0 science experiment created after the first one got too smart. Oh, and the snake in the garden of Eden? not a snake or satan. It was one of the Man 1.0 liberating us from our Brainwashing. Also, there was an alien war and man walked with radioactive dinosaurs. Hand to God (...er alien?) this is what this dude believes.....
I'm not one to judge, but Jimmy Buffet has a great song about Fruitcakes.

Maybe Hawking is right. I would like to find all this out one day, but for right now it makes my head hurt thinking about it.

Jake
 
Hawking is respected. The point is no one knows what happens to us after death, if anything, and we look for the spot of ground where theoretical physicists meet monks and holy men. That may be in a Black Hole. All physical laws as we know them are suspended. Where else could we live forever?

Now I know even the information, the organization of matter is destroyed, there are implications for Soul or consciousness. Hawking proposes alternating universes where matter is destroyed/not destroyed: the only way the design of our experiences, our Souls, could withstand this would be if the blue print were 'between'.

Sigh.

Sometimes Carter and I look at the stars at night. It's enough to make you gasp for air.


munk
 
i vaguely recall, and do not accurately remember, but hawkings wasn't an aetheist.

having study physics and chemistry, i always marvelled at how existence simply fit together in such perfection. in an atom, forces are counterbalanced, water when frozen doesn't sink, gravity forms a star, etc etc... existence is just one big perfectly connected step after another.

and i don't believe in coincidence.

one could argue that existence fits together so perfectly b/c if it didn't, there wouldn't be any existence.

oh well.
 
Black holes are amoung us, they just aren't strong enough to destroy anything 'physical' yet (and very few will ever be). Follow your dog. He'll circle the safe spots before he sits down to rest.
 
We as a species have such trouble with allowing that there are things which we're simply not gonna be able to understand. Maybe Hawking's right, maybe his critics were right ... who of us can ever really know?

In paleolithic times, people made music with whistles and drums - was refined as technology grew, but who could imagine real melody? In the 8th century in the West, melody was the thing - Gregorian Chant. But nobody concieved of harmony, it was all a single note. Then folks added drones, then notes that moved in parallel with the melody. Wasn't 'till hundreds of years later that even the most basic chords were played.

The first paleolothic guy to whack out a rhythm with sticks on the cave floor was as much a genius as Beethoven or Jimi Hendrix. Could he conceive of where his stick rhythms would lead?

Hawking's an astonishing virtuoso, but there's stuff he simply won't, can't know. And you and I are in no position to understand if he's closer on the timeline to the caveman with his sticks, or to Stevie Ray Vaughn.

The point, though, is that the reality exists - however partially we get to understand it. However partially, as one species on one rock hurtling round one insignificant star, we may ever be in a position to understand it.

That's fine - humility's a good thing. Looking at the stars with my kids takes my breath away too.

t.
 
That is a cool dream. Hehe.
 
I know some people who may be black holes, they seem to suck the life right out of the room.
Terry
 
You're on a roll, Tom:) Thank you.

Personally, I find Hawking amazing. A true marvle of what potential a human has upstairs even when the rest of him shuts down. I have no idea about his concept of soul. I would like to know, actually. A man that has been on borrowed time for so long, yet has accomplished so much. How much information can you actually type out? How much introspection he must have!
Einstein has always been a favorite of mine. Not only did he change the way we think about the physical universe, but he brought heart to it. He belived in a God. He was a passionate and romantic (and sometimes lusty;)) man. Perhaps space is only as cold and empty as we perceive it. Perhaps it really is frigid and the only way to truly understand and explore it is with, as Tom said, the intense warmth of God's love.

Physics, metaphysics, belief, magic...my fragile little mind just can't contain it. I'm going to think about it, but not too hard...and just enjoy the ride.

Jake
 
People like Hawking, who commit themselves to living as fully as one can, have my admiration and are noted on my calculator; they can be counted amongst us. They stand out.


munk
 
Over sixty years of trudging thru some of the most interesting and inhospitable terrain imaginable, and a careful study of Natural Science for over forty years has convinced me of the interdependence of all living things. Pretty convincing fossil evidence supports creation and recreation thru at least five major mass extinctions, where 90% up to 98% of all living things were wiped out, only to come back from the precipice, organize and refine thru the process of evolution into whole new ecosystems. When a place like our Earth (and there must be many more) is jammed with life most wonderful, all struggling for survival, but overall exhibiting the harmony consistant with the universe swirling around us, I am not the first to compare this truth with the workings of a fine Swiss watch. If there is a fine watch, it follows there must be a better watch maker, the Grand Architect of the Universe, who someday I'd like to meet.

As hungry as I am for further explanations, I am no Stephen Hawking. A bad ticker and encroaching blindness are finally forcing me out of teaching this spring. My hunger for more and more knowledge has convinced me that the nearest Black Hole is the one between my ears! God grant me a place in Heaven, even if it's only as Another Brick in the Wall...............
 
This thread, I mean. Good on, Munk, thanks. TF, JN everybody, good stuff. Jung and Synchronicity is one that does it for me. A privledge of my life is to be able to stand under stars right on the edge of Mother Pacific, any night of the year. Away from people and their noise, their fumes, their conceits. Sometimes it is breathless, but then we breathe. The surf and sound of children's laughter and sea birds combine seamlessly with a glittering night sky. Science does lead us to spirituality, but not as surely as our own experiences can:).
 
Dr. Hawking is like lots of other famous Englishmen: He Likes soccer, loves his kids, hes, been married and remarried, and even finds his way into the scandal rags every so often. Unlike most famous British guys, he's quite the practical joker. IIRC, Hawking thinks his work is demonstrating how complex God is. So he fits into Munk's dream pretty well.
 
That was a damn good post, Jurrasic.
I'm sure sorry about you quiting teaching. Those kids are lucky to have you. Are you quite sure teaching must end just because of blindness??
I'm only asking. Whatever and wherever you find yourself I know it will be honestly done and good. If it's time for another transition, so be it.

Your post struck a lot of nerve endings....reminded me of the wonder. The sheer wonder. Not only how did He do it, but how did he do the Light Fantastic? How'd He do it so well?

Reading you, and so many other forumites, is the reward for me starting these offbeat threads. What happens after the opener. I never get enough of the Story we share, people do, and this forum was pretty good at the telling once upon a time, and still is.


munk

ps...Abaniko; I remember many nights with the California coast. Even today you can find places without people stomping through elbow to elbow. Depends upon season and it helps to be further away from urban-land. But I remember the Coast, and it's pretty good stuff to listen and watch there.
 
Jurassic,

Sorry to hear about your situation. You have done so much good.

I'll pray that in your new set of limitations, you will find new strengths, and opportunities, and joys.

I'll pray that for all of us.

......................................................................................................

They said of Jesus,"behold, he doeth all things well."

How could God NOT do something well, perfectly, even?

We tend to evaluate things by some standard or other. How would we evaluate God? If we judge him by something other than himself, than THAT thing, or standard, is really ultimate, really God, after all.

I'm not saying we can't ask questions, nor do I suggest unreasoning, blind faith. You could demand that from anybody, for any system of belief.

For me, it seems that it is important to keep this thing clear in my mind. What is the standard? What is ultimate?

I Know that it is not me, although I often think, act, and live as though I were.




Accept that there are things that we can't understand?

I'm there.

Tom
 
Well, we're creating black holes at the moment with the recently finished particle accelerators. We'll soon have more concrete evidence of subatomic particles, dark matter, and dark energy. After all, atomic based matter only comprises 4% of our universe, so we're in the minority. Once we understand dark matter and dark energy, we can expect an excellent array of Busse space knives for space survival.

The future is going to kick ass. I can only hope stem cell research gets rolling so I can live for a few centuries to witness the amazing developments.
 
My brother, who does research in astronomy in Colorado, occasionally sends me news and links related to his areas of interest. I can't really have an intelligent conversation with him on such subjects beyond a basic level, because his knowledge and frame of reference on the universe and its elements are so far and above what my little brain is capable of grasping. It certainly gives one pause when considering the sheer vastness of it all and the fact that on our tiny little speck of rock hurtling through space, that which we call Earth, we have the capacity to contemplate such questions as time and space, beginning and end.

Here's a link to some cool video footage of Comet McNaught:

http://stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/highlight.shtml

Eric
 
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