I have a "totaled" 17th century Wakizashi - what should I do?

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Oct 23, 2006
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Someone scratched the blade up badly, but there isn't any actual damage. The cost of a professional polish would exceed the sword's value. Would I be a terrible person if I tried to polish it myself? I also just found out that Walter Sorrells lives quite near me - does anyone know if he is approachable and/or does polishing?
 
Someone scratched the blade up badly, but there isn't any actual damage. The cost of a professional polish would exceed the sword's value. Would I be a terrible person if I tried to polish it myself? I also just found out that Walter Sorrells lives quite near me - does anyone know if he is approachable and/or does polishing?

A couple of things, first how do you know that the cost of a polish would exceed the sword's value? Who did you have look at it? Second what would you do to "polish it?" You are probably already aware, but "polishing" a Japanese sword is something far more then buffing out scratches.

You are of course free to do what you want with your own possessions but depending on the item you may be merely the latest caretaker of a piece of history. It would be a shame to compound the damage that someone else has done.
 
DO NOT attempt to polish it yourself. As Triton said... you are the Steward of an artifact of history. Attempting an amateur polish could ruin an irreplaceable antique.

Walter is a great guy , and is approachable , but I'm not sure he would take a job like that. Who knows... I definitely don't speak for him. Chris Osborne is just about 2.5 hours from you over in Augusta.

I'd suggest having someone,like Chris , look at the blade and polish a window on it to see whats going on their ... also it would be a good idea to first post up some pics of the blade , nakago , kissaki and koshirae . Especially is there is mei. You can sprinkle baby powder on the nakago if necessary to help the mei stand out more for photos. Perhaps someone here can give you insight iinto what you actually have.
 
The big questions are, how do you know it's totaled and how did you ascertain that a professional polish would exceed it's value ??
Also, when you consider it's value, are you going by what you paid or by the potential value ?

Consider this, let's say you bought this sword on flea-bay for next to nothing due to it's condition (present value $$).
After being evaluated by someone with real experience/knowledge in the field, it is determined to be a Kotetsu.
The value has now increased exponentially (potential value $$$$$$), making the price of a professional polish well worth while.
Easy now, don't get your hopes to high just yet. The chances of it being the quality of a Kotetsu is slim, very, very slim.

Scratches can be restored.
The work of the do-it-yourself and /or amateur polisher will most likely result in the ruin and total devaluation of the sword.
So in answer to your question, "Would I be a terrible person if I tried to polish it myself?" No, just stupid.

The moral of the story here is that you should take the time and effort to have it fully evaluated before making a self determination that it is totaled.

For a start, post some photos and provide any info you may not have shared at the beginning.
 
The moral of the story here is that you should take the time and effort to have it fully evaluated before making a self determination that it is totaled.

To be fair we don't know that he / she hasn't had it already fully evaluated by a reputable expert. Hence the question. Personally the thought of taking a buffer to something that is 400 years old gives me the heebie jeebies... because if you are wrong...
 
You all might try to avoid jumping to conclusions and calling your fellow forumites stupid. I mean, he did mention that the cost would exceed the value. Presumably he's got at least some reason to say that. For all you know, he may very well have had it appraised by a professional already, and it's not worth very much. You're acting like you know for sure that he did nothing, or took it to an amateur. While this behavior is understandable, given the paucity of data provided, you would do well to give OP the benefit of the doubt before you get all up in arms in your ignorance of his actual situation.

Would your answer change if he's right, and it's worth considerably less than the cost of a professional polishing?
 
Would your answer change if he's right, and it's worth considerably less than the cost of a professional polishing?

A good question there, I think in the end I'd probably still be inclined to leave it alone. It's not worth the cost of the professional polish now... but how about 200 years from now?
 
Amen, crimson. This is getting to be a touchy freakin' subforum of late.

Prof.
 
Guys, I am not jumping to any conclusions, nor am I up in arms. I replied to the only tangible bit of information provided, "Someone scratched the blade up badly, but there isn't any actual damage".

Where as you guys are speculating on what he may or may not have done.
we don't know, Presumably, For all you know,

As no other information was provided, are you any less ignorant to his actual situation than I.
BTW: You seem OK with calling me ignorant, but not my stating it is stupid to attempt to polish an antique sword. (excellent way to get your point across that we shouldn't be name callers)

Would your answer change if he's right, and it's worth considerably less than the cost of a professional polishing?
Absolutely not !! I would never condone the amateur restoration and possible destruction of an antique piece, be it a sword or piece of furniture. Today it may be the consensus that it is worthless, but the future may yield a different view. And regardless of what anyone thinks, I personally feel it would be a stupid thing to do. However, in fairness, I really didn't mean for it to come across as calling the OP stupid, just that it would be stupid to follow that course of action.

Did I not end my post with an offer of help: "For a start, post some photos and provide any info you may not have shared at the beginning."

In order to not come across as touchy, remember what George Carlin said: "Tits always look better in a pink sweater."
 
So in answer to your question, "Would I be a terrible person if I tried to polish it myself?" No, just stupid.

The moral of the story here is that you should take the time and effort to have it fully evaluated before making a self determination that it is totaled.

^^This. First, you make the assumption throughout your entire post that he didn't take his sword to a qualified person for the evaluation. Nowhere do you credit his statement that it isn't worth the (generally very high) cost of a professional restoration at face value. In fact, you call it a "self-determination." I have always believed that, particularly in a public forum in which I get the opportunity to review my comments before I click post, and to edit them after, that I should be as careful as possible about my language and what I say. If I'm going to assume he didn't do due diligence, as seemed to be assumed by many (not just you), I should at least credit the possibility, that, despite the lack of information provided, that the poster in question does, in fact, have a credible reason for their statement. Nor should I ever call them stupid, when a simple ("In your position, I would never do that") would suffice. I appreciate that your intent wasn't to call the OP stupid. But, language being what it is, that IS the primary meaning of your statement.

As no other information was provided, are you any less ignorant to his actual situation than I.
BTW: You seem OK with calling me ignorant, but not my stating it is stupid to attempt to polish an antique sword. (excellent way to get your point across that we shouldn't be name callers)

We are all absolutely ignorant of his actual situation. That's exactly my point.

Now, you may very well be right in all of your assumptions. The point is, we don't know. I'm just asking all and sundry, not just you, to retain the courtesy that I generally take to be a hallmark of the blade-loving community here, and to consider what they're saying and reading more closely. For instance, you take my post to mean that I think you're ignorant. However, what I actually said was to describe your (and our) ignorance of the situation, as evidenced by the fact that you urge him to provide more details. And that's true, as far as I can see. We ARE all ignorant of the situation, as the OP hasn't provided details. We don't really know anything about why he believes it's totaled. While I agree with the sentiment, I don't agree with the implementation.

Consider further: Not a single post to date has offered an opinion that takes him at face value. Every single person in here, myself included, is cringing at the possibility of amateurishly damaging a priceless antique, and every post asks him why he thinks it's totaled. Not a single person takes it at face value. How must it feel to have to prove your every comment before anyone will deign to answer your question? Would it not be better to say, "I'm curious what makes you think it's totaled, and where the valuation comes from, but in your position, regardless of value, I would probably avoid running the risk of further damaging the blade with amateur polishing." (The difference being that one is a description of what you would do in his position, while the other is a judgment OF him).

Here's another question. Everyone just assumes it actually IS a 17th century blade, but that the OP hasn't had it valued professionally. If you're going to doubt, why not doubt all of it? If you take his assurance about the age of what he has for granted, why not his assurance about the value?

And that being the case, would your answer change if you discovered that it is actually a flea-bay replica, made of some unknown steel by some mass-produced factory in China within the current decade? Mine sure would.

Also, don't mind me. I'm just an opinionated internet hero (I said it, not you). :)
 
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Walter Sorrell's has a nice web site. You could most likely contact him through it. Mike
 
Sir, You have no idea what I assume. Aside from the use of the word "stupid", you seem all intent upon making assumptions on what you perceive as my assumptions. I have already admitted that I could have been more tactful with my choice of words.

First, you make the assumption throughout your entire post that he didn't take his sword to a qualified person for the evaluation.
Not so, that is your assumption. He clearly stated "there isn't any actual damage."
I have no idea what opinions he may or may not have sought out. However, he does indicate that has no real damage. This would lead me to believe that he has had some opinion. But until the OP answers it is all speculation.

If there is no real damage, then I stand firm on my conviction that an attempt to self polish would be a terrible thing to do.

Nowhere do you credit his statement that it isn't worth the (generally very high) cost of a professional restoration at face value.
Nor did I discredit his statement, but asked "how do you know it's totaled and how did you ascertain that a professional polish would exceed it's value ??" I asked this in hope of a reply from the OP, which would allow a more informative response.

In fact, you call it a "self-determination."
Again, a gross misrepresentation of my words, when in fact I was encouraging the OP to not make any hasty decisions. What I stated was, "you should take the time and effort to have it fully evaluated before making a self determination that it is totaled."

I am sorry, but I refuse to be drawn into a tit for tat petty argument where assumptions are being made on perceived assumptions.

Unless the OP would like to add to the discussion, I have nothing further to say regarding your comments.

Have a nice day!
 
Too much grumpy in this thread. This forum has turned very non-newbie friendly
And you have helped it not to be, just how?:p

It is not terribly friendly even towards those that have been here for more than a decade. Put your name in lights, gold or red and you have some indication of the pecking order. Not that this should make a difference but in a sense, a flag to "make way".

I guess we need a kitty picture with paw on head with a caption reading "you guyz stoopid" Or a bag of popcorn. Or even a reply by the op if we haven't scared away another.


PIG PILE!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

GC
 
OP, I don't know if you will read this, but if you do I apologize for your post being raped.

Returning to your sword, of course you can contact Walter, he is a nice guy. As a sword smith, I don't know if he takes on polish work or not. As also recommended there is a polisher in Georgia, Chris Osbourne. Chris mostly works on modern made blades. He is a nice guy and will do his best to help you. He stays busy and currently has about a four month waiting period. He may would do a window in your sword or he may make other recommendations.

Chris can be contacted at:
Shinogi Michi Studio
chris@swordpolish.net

But again, you should post a few photos here first with a little more specific information regarding the sword. This would help in making appropriate recommendations.

I do want to share with you why I said you would be stupid to attempt self polishing and why I used the name Kotetsu in a previous post.
Several years ago at the VA, a WW II veteran told me he had a Japanese sword he had brought back from the war.
Of course I asked him if he wanted to sell it, he said "if you want it, you can have the damn thing".
A couple of weeks later I went to his house to pick up the sword. As we walked out to his shop, he said "I went ahead and ground the rust off the blade". I cringed but said nothing. When he removed it from the saya I felt sick to my stomach. He had taken a steel wire wheel and removed all the rusted spots and tarnish. In the process he had altered the geometry of the shinogi and kissaki, also the blade had gotten hot enough to ruin the hamon. I said nothing except thank you and returned home.

When I looked at the mei and saw "Nagasone Kotetsu Nyudo" I cringed again. Kotetsu is a big, big name but was faked a lot. After much research and comparison to oshigata of known good signatures, I felt the mei was shoshin(good). In 04' I sent the sword to Japan prior to my trip. While there I took it to the NBTHK and met with Tanobe Michihiro, then president of the NBTHK. He and several others looked over the sword and determined that the mei was indeed good. I really wanted to be sick at that point.

That sword if properly polished and papered would have been worth around $60,000.
Yet, in a matter of minutes it was ruined beyond repair and reduced to scrap.

The next time I saw the veteran who gave it to me, he asked what I had done with it. I told him the story and when I finished, his reply was , "Damn, that was stupid of me".

So please, if you have not already done so, seek out someone with the expertise to point you in the right direction.
 
A picture's worth a thousand words...

painting-fresco_2316720b.jpg
 
Sorry for the delay in responding. As for how I got it evaluated, I took it to the blade show and showed it to a Japanese Gentleman who had a variety of Japanese swords. He said it was 17th century and worth $800. It is my understanding that a polish costs more than that. It is unsigned. I acquired it via inheritance from a great aunt who lived in Japan before and after WWII - her husband was a neutral Swede. Her story was that her "houseboy" gave it to her.

here are some photos - sorry about the size of the second one.
swords%20003.jpg


You can see on the 2nd photo that someone apparently worked on it with steel wool or something. All I've done is put renwax on it.

swords%20010.JPG
 
Southern - your story convinced me. (I wasn't even considering a wire brush, but a light buffing? I thought that might be ok.
 
Sorry for the delay in responding. As for how I got it evaluated, I took it to the blade show and showed it to a Japanese Gentleman who had a variety of Japanese swords. He said it was 17th century and worth $800.

I think I'd be very much tempted to get a second opinion. Perhaps Dr. Stein will be along and can shed some light...
 
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