I have an idea, is it a good one?

Skimo

Skimo

Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
4,008
All ideas, comments are welcome.

I got this idea a moment ago, and this is how it came to me.

I was just reading another thread about what tools to take to the woods.

I was just thinking, about how I baton my knife, and how awesome it would be to carry a froe at the same time.

So here's my idea.

Would it be possible to make a knife with a hole at the end of the handle to accept a piece of wood to make the knife a functional froe?

I'll add pictures if my idea isn't translating with words.

Edit: Adding the picture to the first post as well.

knifefroe.jpg
 
Last edited:
I think it certainly would be possible. I'd like to see a knife like that!
 
Yes! I think it would take multi purpose to a new level, the only down side I can see to it would be the added weight and possibly unbalancing the knife, but that wouldn't be as much of a problem on a larger blade, it might even help balancing issues. :D
 
It would be essentially like a finger ring that was rotated 90* so that the hole was oriented in the same direction as the edge, right?
 
Yes, very much like an axe eye.

The thoughts I had were a knife with a long tang that wrapped around to make the eye, possibly welding on a section of steel pipe, or pretty much whatever would allow for the possible stresses associated with adding a lever to the tang, possible faults with adding stress to the eye.
 
Wouldn't the knife have to have a square tip? I think you should stick with a ring on the end,but carry a piece of threaded pipe along that would fit through the ring. A couple nuts on the threaded pipe to tighten and hold the knife in place. Just a thought...
 
I think you are looking for a different orientation from the skatchet, then?

I can visualize a few patterns that wold work, but they all seem to be better off as sickle type tools or weapons. A felling type hatchet ... you would end up with a skatchet again
 
You could always go with a froe design that has a handle something like a thick bladed campknife with a square tip. It would resemble a sharpened prybar but you would not need to make a field expediant handle to use it :)
 
for a froe specifically, the problem I have it getting a good working edge as a knife out of it.

EDIT:

I found some images of froes that look suspiciously like the "modern seax" design I've done (!), and now I'm thinking it's probably very workable with a full convex grind. The only real task is forming a good eye. That could be done around a mandrel and welded to the tang.

http://www.retiredtractors.com/tools/froe1.html
 
Last edited:
In my mind's eye, I see this as more a Hudson Bay knife type pattern with a ring on the end that you could slip a hawk handle through rather than the skatchet.
OTOH, you might also look at the HI bamboo cutter or a bamboo froe from Lee Valley/Garrett Wade for something with a more traditional knife shaped handle.
 
Here is a pic of a swiss kindling axe. Looks like a froe with an inline handle. Would work for your application. I'd prefer a solid handle tang myself or even a wrapped tang for strength and if something happened to the wrap or slabs you'd still have a workable hand hold to keep working with. Really this is what a lot of us do with our big camp knives and choppers already. A more general use tool that could serve as a froe would make more sense to me for packing in but that's just me :)
 
I could see it as a unique solution for building long-term shelters--a "Bush Carpenter's knife" as it were. Make it large chopper sized so you can take out trees and then render them into boards. :)
 
Amazing, I love all the input!

I found a fault with what I had in my head, well, maybe, I'm no metallurgist.

I've got my RAT 7 in hand, so that's what I can visualize with at the moment.

I see an eye behind the micarta slabs, kinda like a giant lanyard hole but like 42blades mentioned earlier "In line with the blade" not perpendicular to it.

What came to my mind is a couple things, this would definitely suffer with a skeleton tang, that and the amount of flex the tang would have to endure might be a problem for long term use as a froe, or even short term should one take on something too thick, it could break the handle and would probably break the slabs off in short order.

The slabs issue may be remedied by a synthetic rubber like santoprene or something along that line, but that doesn't solve the possibility of the tang suffering damage or breaking from the stress imposed as a froe.

I still like the idea of this, it adds girth to the pommel which is great for when you're chopping.
 
what if you made the eye for the froe as part of the guard?

You could have a couple of slots on each side of the tang, then a fitted piece with two tines (picture like a tuning fork w/ one tine on each side of the tang) that slides onto the tang then transitions to a socket that you could fit a handle to in the field. There could be a pin to retain the fork. I would think you would need a fairly deep blade, say a couple of inches, to get the kind of torque advantage you'd want from a froe.


one of the issues though, isn't a froe usually a relatively thick, convex cross-section that *doesn't* taper to a keen edge? I thought they were designed to tear along the grain, rather than cut the wood fibers?
 
chopchop said:
what if you made the eye for the froe as part of the guard?
I suppose it would work like that, instead of going from blade to handle, it would go from blade to eye to handle, my thoughts were of a "field expedient" setup aka ya gerry rig a froe handle. instead of carrying in extra weight.
You could have a couple of slots on each side of the tang, then a fitted piece with two tines (picture like a tuning fork w/ one tine on each side of the tang) that slides onto the tang then transitions to a socket that you could fit a handle to in the field. There could be a pin to retain the fork. I would think you would need a fairly deep blade, say a couple of inches, to get the kind of torque advantage you'd want from a froe.

I can totally dig what you're saying here, but with that setup you're then limited to how deep you can sink a stick into the socket if we went with a gerry rigged handle, what I really like about your idea is a pin holding the fork in place, awesome idea if the handle was one piece, then you could easily transition between froe and chopper. Though I should clarify that it could still be used on a normal knife as an aide for batoning.

one of the issues though, isn't a froe usually a relatively thick, convex cross-section that *doesn't* taper to a keen edge? I thought they were designed to tear along the grain, rather than cut the wood fibers?
Click to expand...

Well, that I don't know, I'm pretty sure it could work well with a convexed edge, again being a multi purpose tool rather than a tool designated and relegated to a single task.
 
TWBryan said:
Wouldn't the knife have to have a square tip? I think you should stick with a ring on the end,but carry a piece of threaded pipe along that would fit through the ring. A couple nuts on the threaded pipe to tighten and hold the knife in place. Just a thought...
Click to expand...

Naw it wouldn't have to have a square tip.

I was thinking really of the knife/froe with a field expedient handle, more knife than froe, really as a weight saver as well one less thing to pack in/out.
 
another thought...

what if you had an oval cross section on the knife handle and you had a fitting or something that could go over the butt end of the knife but be attached somehow to a stick that you rig in the field?

or maybe the butt end of the knife is a rectangle, sort of a tenon, and you fit it to a mortised long handle. the mortise could be reinforced with some sort of metal u shaped section that you slide on to a carved stick to keep the corners of the mortise notched in the stick from cracking. Does that make sense?


I was thinking of making a froe on the cheap for splitting firewood... and thought of drilling a hole through a stout bolo or bar steel scrap that I have, then cutting a notch in a pipe and fitting that over the blade with a pin through a hole in the pipe and through the blade.

I wonder if that could work as a field froe as well... never thought of taking it with me!
 
Ok, here's about the best I can do for a visual representation of what's in my head.

knifefroe.jpg


Edit: Just had another idea, if red section were used, flat head screws could be used to loosen the scales and allow for some twisting without damaging the scales. A SAK/multi-tool could easily handle that.
 
Last edited:
Skimo said:
Edit: Just had another idea, if red section were used, flat head screws could be used to loosen the scales and allow for some twisting without damaging the scales. A SAK/multi-tool could easily handle that.
Click to expand...

That drawing makes sense to me. I'm inclined to think twisting from the middle of the overall length (blue) would reduce the amount of torsion the blade would have to handle, since there is less length to twist before it hits the part stuck in the wood.

Another thought... if you want to twist from the end (red) maybe you could have a wrapped handle. Maybe a hemp wrap like the wildertools knives that Magnussen does, or a built up leather or paracord wrap. I bet that would handle the torsion just fine and wouldn't have to be altered.



Here's another thought... what if you just had a hole through the blade, and then fit a pipe through it perpendicularly to make a plus sign? You could get a pretty good twist on it by pulling up on the pipe like a t-handle wrench, and it wouldn't take any special fittings at all. If the edges of the hole were rounded or if you had a collar the fit the hole, you could probably even use a stick of sufficient thickness.
 
That could work too, but like I said, I'm dumb as rocks when it comes to how the steel would handle it, that and I'm not sure how well it would handle controlling the angle of the blade while batoning, I think an upward handle would give more control than a perpendicular one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top