I just like a fine edge...period.

R

raul casso

Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
25
Hello everyone,

Let me tell you how it is with me when it comes to exotic steels vs okay steels and fine edges. I have LOTs of knives--I became a knife enthusiast in the 80s when 440c and 154 cm (ATS 34) were the steels in vogue. Now, in 2018, I look back at those steels and ignore them. They're boring. Today, we have super steels, CPM particle stuff, and so on. I have knives made of many of the latest fashion steel that there is available whether from Japan, Germany, or the USA, or wherever.

My work environment, and daily life, does not have me using any blade really hard. I'll open letters, the occasional box--but even then, it's just the tape that seals it that needs cutting. I do cook--and I have wonderful kitchen knives that I will not get into here since this is a post about EDC folders and the steels they are made of--not kitchen knives from Japan like Takeda using super blue or Shiraki using white steel NO. 1.

What knife steels come down to for me is not for a tool for using in my daily life--even opening letters I could do with a letter opener that has no sharp edge to speak of at all. No. What I really get into--let's face it--is a fine edge. My desk has knives and blades all over it. What I do is fondle them throughout the day--like a fetish. What I like to do is hone the edges to where they are really fine and then feel then with my fingers, and then slice pages from a phone book (or newspaper) to see how well the edges glide through. VG-10 is okay, for example. It gets an okay edge. Yeah. ZDP or M4 area much nicer--those get really sharp and just slice through beautifully. M390 is pretty nice for that, too. My wife looks at me with a tolerant gaze--I am there again, standing at the kitchen counter with water stones in front of me, or an Arkansas, or an 8000 grit diamond stone, and I pass the blades back and forth, and then feel the edges with the fingers of my left hand, and then reach for a sheet from an old phone book and do some slicing. She thinks it strange but she has no idea what a joy a really fine blade brings just for being so damn fine. 1095 can do it, but not for long, for example.

I'm a city guy, what can I say? How's it for you guys?
 
So what you're saying is that you enjoying sharpening and fondling your knives more than you think about using them? I don't have much opportunity for using my knives hard as they say, I am happy with a working edge even though I think polished edges are nice to look at. I do normal cutting with my knives at work, plastic bags, rubber/silicon tubing, duct tape and cardboard, that sort of stuff and at home I cut food packages, open letters and sometimes cardboard and plastic packages.
I always have a knife or three within reach to flip or fondle, I guess I am bit fidget-y that way.
 
My job requires tools. What I do around the house requires tools. My hobbies require tools. In all cases, a knife is one of the required tools.
 
i kinda get it. i find i grab knives with the sharpest edges over ones that still have good working edges. i am constantly reprofiling new knives with obtuse factory bevels and touching up ones ive used. i dont cut paper just to cut but i do get your obsession with the sharpest possible edge.
 
b00n said:
So what you're saying is that you enjoying sharpening and fondling your knives more than you think about using them? I don't have much opportunity for using my knives hard as they say, I am happy with a working edge even though I think polished edges are nice to look at. I do normal cutting with my knives at work, plastic bags, rubber/silicon tubing, duct tape and cardboard, that sort of stuff and at home I cut food packages, open letters and sometimes cardboard and plastic packages.
I always have a knife or three within reach to flip or fondle, I guess I am bit fidget-y that way.
Click to expand...
Well, it isn't so much that I enjoy sharpening my knives more than using them; to the contrary, when I use them and they cut well, as they do, nothing can be more satisfying for a knife enthusiast. What I mean to say though, is that while not intentional, what winds up happening is that I sharpen my knives really fine, and the jobs for cutting just don't come up much given my life style. So, I wind up admiring fine edges more than using them besides slicing phone book pages. I have had to use knives in a hard way over the years (I used to live in the country), but nowadays, my life style doesn't require using a knife in a hard way. So, getting into what they are capable of by way of appreciating a fine edge is where it's at for me right now. I have some really fine blades in my collection. I know what they can do, and my sharpening skills are such that I can bring the best out of them. I think I'm going to graduate from phone book pages to cigarette paper to really get into it.
 
I don't get it all of the steelsnypu mentioned cam take fine edfes and pretty easily. If you want a really fine edfe try a softer steel like high carbon or 8cr13mov. Not very exotic but they get scalpel sharp.
 
cchu518 said:
I don't get it all of the steelsnypu mentioned cam take fine edfes and pretty easily. If you want a really fine edfe try a softer steel like high carbon or 8cr13mov. Not very exotic but they get scalpel sharp.
Click to expand...
that's true but they don't last long at all. So what?
 
raul casso said:
that's true but they don't last long at all. So what?
Click to expand...
Look I'm not looking to wind you up but you just said that you don't get the chance to ever fully use a fine edge. So ask yourself so what if the steels I noted don't hold an edge as long as say M4.

To each their own I suppose.
 
raul casso said:
that's true but they don't last long at all. So what?
Click to expand...
In fact, high carbon blades (which are my favorite, by the way) will deteriorate at the micro level. I have noticed time and again where I leave a high carbon blade with a super fine edge in a drawer, and some weeks later, I come back to it and the keen edge is gone--almost as though on a microscopic level it fell away in the way that rust would eat the blade completely over time.
 
cchu518 said:
Look I'm not looking to wind you up but you just said that you don't get the chance to ever fully use a fine edge. So ask yourself so what if the steels I noted don't hold an edge as long as say M4.

To each their own I suppose.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your input. I am just going off on a rant here, really. I'm a knife enthusiast and I just like getting into the fine points of knife steel (no pun intended) without getting into chemical analysis and stuff like that. If you are a knife nut like many on this forum are, including myself, we just get into the different steels on offer and their various attributes. Each knife steel has its own character. Getting to know them is part of the hobby.
 
For me I try not to judge one steel over the other. They just have difft attributes that I try to enjoy.

I'm a huge fan of bd1,440c, aus 8, vg 10, sandcik but also s35vn and elmax. These are my favorite steels for general easy going-ness.

Alot of forum members tout s110v for example but for me it's just overkill relative to how much thinking I have to do to sharpen it properly even with diamond plates. I do like trying out diff steels though. Trying to get my hands on a Hap 40 Spyderco Millitary if sal ever decides to make one lol.
 
I don't quite get the notion that some steels will not get as fine an edge as others.

With the equivalent grinding they should all be similar, although some will not mirror polish and some, like 440, want to make a "lip" that flip flops and is hard to break cleanly without resorting to an extreme grind angle. So it is true some are harder to get there "clean", but getting there is theoretically possible with all of them.

As to holding that fine edge, the older cheaper don't necessarily do worse than the newer and expensive, rather the opposite I would say...

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
I don't quite get the notion that some steels will not get as fine an edge as others.
Click to expand...

Well, ya see, with steel metalurgy there's these thingamabobs called carbides.

With the equivalent grinding they should all be similar, although some will not mirror polish and some, like 440, want to make a "lip" that flip flops and is hard to break cleanly without resorting to an extreme grind angle. So it is true some are harder to get there "clean", but getting there is theoretically possible with all of them.
Click to expand...

Not everybody sucks at sharpening. And if your idea of a fine edge is one where the wire edge snaps off and leaves a clean edge behind, then you really need to step up your game.

As to holding that fine edge, the older cheaper don't necessarily do worse than the newer and expensive, rather the opposite I would say...

Gaston
Click to expand...

Age is irrelevant. Composition and heat treat are. People are learning new things with heat treats as well as improving existing steels by tweaking the composition or inventing new ways to use existing compositions better, such as particle metallurgy, which give steel a more uniform carbide matrix, allowing for increased wear resistance and finer edges.
 
Gaston444 said:
I don't quite get the notion that some steels will not get as fine an edge as others.

With the equivalent grinding they should all be similar, although some will not mirror polish and some, like 440, want to make a "lip" that flip flops and is hard to break cleanly without resorting to an extreme grind angle. So it is true some are harder to get there "clean", but getting there is theoretically possible with all of them.

As to holding that fine edge, the older cheaper don't necessarily do worse than the newer and expensive, rather the opposite I would say...

Gaston
Click to expand...

I don't think that's how metal works...
 
I love elmax, all my Alan Davis folders are elmax, and i have several factory folders in the very same steel.
I have one santoku that my wife loves in elmax, I could see trying a couple more kitchen knives in it.
M390 is great also, but doesnt take the fine edge I get on elmax.
Russ
 
Steel is just one factor. Others are the grind (flat, hollow, sabre, scandi...), the thickness, width and length of the blade. These all together determine how steep or obtuse you must / can sharpen the blade, IMO. Just as an example : I have (very) thin kitchen knives in Shirogami (Hitachi white) that I sharpened initially at 10° dps. Pure slicers... (but almost razor territory). Since then, I have tried 12.5° dps and now 15° dps. They still slice flawlessly but hold their edge longer and are less sensitive to hitting a bone. So there's that. I love extremely slicey, polished edges. But sometimes, less (steep) performs better (at cutting).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top