I like the REAL Paper Wheels!

gunmike1

gunmike1

Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Messages
2,402
Thanks to Richardj leading me to Mike Smith of Razor Edge paper wheels I have now tried the wheels getting a good lesson. Luckily I live near Mike and he was driving past where I live this afternoon and he was generous enough to drop by my house and show me his $40 bench grinder and 8" razor edge wheel set. He set it up in my messy garage from my recent move, and after him demonstrating on a paring knife and a utility kitchen knife I took a try at a Santoku I have of unknown stainless from KAI that Thom Brogan was nice enough to give me. I did a pass per side at the microbevel angle or thereabouts, and a burr was easily raised on the 180 grit wheel. I then used the slotted finishing wheel with a bit of white rouge to finish, and in about a minute, on my first try, I had a tree topping sharp knife with no burr. Talk a out easy to use! I later did a Boker Magnum cheap "440" steel made in China knife and same thing, tree topping in under a minute! I need a lot of practice in the next few days after getting the wheels and cheap Ryobi grinder to get my angles down, but I was shocked how easy it was to use. I am trying to find out if things like my .25 micron diamond spray or .5 micron green CrO or 10000 grit diamond paste will work for finishing to an even sharper, super polished edge. I do know that now for under $100 I will be on my way to saving at least the first several steps in my sharpening process, if not all of the non-power sharpening steps if I can avoid using my lapping film with diamond spray or 3M micrabrasives to get the best possible edges I can make. Reprofiling will be a snap on the 180 grit sharpening wheel without the worry of ruining my heat treat. Talk about great stuff for a gimpy guy with a bad back! I will try to get set up tomorrow, but at worst at the end of the week I should be set up to getting tree topping edges from a knife with absolutely no edge in one minute.

Once agan, huge thanks to Mike Smith for giving me free hands on training and to Richard j for leading me into trying the real Razor Edge paper wheels. I can now personally attest that they are the real deal!

Mike
 
Will the Takeda ever be seeing those wheels? :eek:

Thanks for the write up! I'm intrigued by these things you and Richard_J say.
 
What speed was his bench grinder? I'm shopping for one right now, and am thinking of spending the extra $ to get a variable speed that goes down to 1750 rpm.
 
Have you tried the diamond spray on them yet?
 
sodak said:
What speed was his bench grinder? I'm shopping for one right now, and am thinking of spending the extra $ to get a variable speed that goes down to 1750 rpm.
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Richardj runs his at 1725 rpm I believe (who would argue with sucess)
Razor sharp wheels say over 3000 rpms
I run mine at 2156 rpms - change pulleys, change speed. (my own set-up)
P1010001-vi.jpg

I think slower is better when you first start using any new system. With experience you can increase the speed if you feel its necessary. The vari-speed is a good idea IMO.
Good luck
Ron
 
i can speed up my buffer to 5420 rpm but there is no need for such a high speed. you can go too slow though which usually stalls the motor on a low hp motor. you can get by with just a 1725 rpm motor and an arbor that fits right on the shaft. if anyone needs an arbor i'm thinking of making some. i can also make shafts for a setup similar to what rpttrsn has. it will be for 3/4" pillowblocks.
 
The snow is gone and I can get to my Garage again so I will be trying a set soon. I have a 6 inch Bench grinder but I also have a set of stones on a shaft with a separate motor that I can vary the pullet size with.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Have you tried the diamond spray on them yet?
Click to expand...

Yes, I will try it, though the owner said he had never tried anything but the rouge.

The grinder speed was around 3500 I believe.

I was real happy with tree topping edges on medium rouge, I would guess if the .25 micron spray works well the edges will be unreal. Finding my angles will be the biggest part of the learning curve it is getting an angle where you want it. Once I get my angles down even the Takeda will be used on it.

I didn't reply because I spent yesterday ridding myself of an Audi and getting a loaded Accord V6 with Nav and voice activated everything for dirt cheap (relatively). I needed a bigger car to better suit the family, and this has an extra 101 HP over the Audi to boot. We are breaking it in by going to Sea World so I may not respond so much for a few days, but by next week should have the answers to if the diamond spray works on the wheels. They work great with rouge, but if I can do 100000 grit finishing that is all the better.

Mike
 
i bet the diamond spray polishes faster but it will be interesting to see the results. i'm also wondering if it will stick on the wheel longer than the rouge.
 
Congrats on the better car and Sea World vacation!

It was just scary that you were going off to sharpen many knives with your power tools and then were very silent.
 
Thanks for the write up Mike! That's awesome that Mike Smith was able to stop by to train you.

I had been debating on whether or not to just get a paper wheel and use my HF belt sander to do the initial sanding. I emailed Mike Smith about what polishing compound he uses. He replied that he uses a compound for chrome plate designed to buff chrome but not break through the thin chrome plating.

I'm very interested to hear how the diamond spray works.
 
thombrogan said:
Congrats on the better car and Sea World vacation!

It was just scary that you were going off to sharpen many knives with your power tools and then were very silent.
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Thanks for the well wishing and concern with me and power tools. As for the car, the voice activated everything, nav, super comfy leather seats, and extra 101 HP over the Audi along with great reliability and a 7 year/100000 mile bumper to bumper warranty from Honda makes me way more happy with my car situation aside from the payment (3.9% financing was nice, though). It is also much bigger than my Audi so the extra space is much appreciated on the trip, and nav is so nice when you are going to places you have never been. My engine also shuts down to 3 cylinders when cruising so I got 31 MPG with AC blaring at 75 MPH on regular gas, so I'm a happy guy until my first payment arrives. They are even detailing it again Tuesday after we got it all bug splattered and dirty from a break in trip for free, so go Honda (actually made in USA as well).

But I digress, back to the wheels. Mike Smith showed me only edge trailing passes so my knife doesn't get caught and thrown at me. I can't wait to get home as my brother in law is picking up my mail and I think my diamond spray arrived, so by some time middle of next week I'll have a clue if the diamond spray works on the finishing wheel. Truthfully, the white rouge worked so good (tree topping my first try ever), so fast that doing a quick sub micron finishing on lapping film when I feel it's needed is no big deal. At that point I've saved myself the setup, sharpening, swapping of stones, and cleaning up involved to get to a finish ready for lapping on the diamond spray that was done in a minute on the wheels. That is quite a bit of time saved, especially if I'm doing multiple knives. If the diamond spray doesn't work green rouge, my 10000 grit diamond paste (the strop paste Sodak sent me) or others might get it hair whittling like my current set up gets me. It will be fun to play with all the options and see how it all works out. Either way my surgically repaired back loves the fact I can now rebevel a knife and get it tree topping sharp without hunching over and leaning hard pressure into the stone for several minutes to change an angle like i do now.

The bottom line is the wheels are excellent sharpening tools that should last me almost forever since I don't professionally sharpen. I'll just have to regrit the sharpening wheel every so often and figure out what finishing grit works best on my finish wheel and I will have a better finish in 1 minute than 99% of factory edges. That performance is hard to beat, all for under $100 for wheels and and bench grinder.

Mike
 
Gunmike1,
It seems that you and I are playing with different combos on our sharpening paper wheels at the same time. (see post on power leather belt compounds) I just got the diamond spray the other day and am looking forward to your results with it on the paper wheels. I had loaded mine with the white compound that was sent with the wheels and for now will keep the spray for the hand strops. I am still on the fence about what to put on the grinder belt. Diamond Spray .5 or .25 ,chromium oxide or the white compound. Picked up some additional green compound Friday from Harbor Freight as it was on sale in the store. $2.99 1/4 pound. Maybe I should buy some from a higher end source as the quality should be better ??? I have a larger bar that I think came from McMaster -Carr that is very hard. Tough to apply on leather. Used a file (rasp) to remove from the bar, powdered it then mixed with mineral oil. Nice paste and goes on the leather well. Good luck with your testing.
 
I've been thinking about paper wheels ever since I saw a professional using them. There's a guy at the Waldo Flea Market who's been sharpening knives for many decades, is very good, and charges very low prices. He's got mobile sharpening workshop that he tows from a truck. He's got about four different bench grinders and a belt sander in it, along with various other miscellania. He takes it around to knife shows so some of you may have met him. He put a shaving edge on my 24" machete, starting with a factory bevel, in about a minute, going between his various sanders and wheels, and charged $3. If I did it with my hand files and paper strop, it would have taken me 5 hours and probably not come out as even. He's close to retirement and has no one to continue the business, which is unfortunate. I wish I could study with him. I think he's about 90 years old and he can still move the blades across his wheels with enviable steadiness.

Some paper wheel selling places sell a whole kit with the wax and polishing compounds and everything, so I'd probably just use what they recommend, but I wonder what sorts would actually work well with them, and if it's different than what you use for other polishing/sharpening applications. Currently I'm using a paper strop. I bought some tubes of compound from Lowes, made by Porter Cable, and I don't like them. They're dry and powdery and I can't get them to stick to anything. I really like the 1lb bricks of compound you can get on Amazon from Woodstock. That's the only thing I use on my paper strops. I tried putting some on some home-made leather strops and it didn't rub off easily enough. The Porter Cable ones didn't work either. I heated up oil in a pot and dissolved some compound in it to get it into the leather, and I still never got those things to work worth a damn. I probably used leather that was too soft. That's good to know I could get a paper wheel set up for under $100. Now if only I had a bench to put it on...
 
I get good results with the razor sharp wheels with the supplied wax compounds. But I see there is an almost identical looking product available much cheaper at knifecenter with good customer reviews.
I haven't tried them personally but might be worth a look and the money saved might buy a bench, or at least a leg!
 
ufdionysus said:
That's good to know I could get a paper wheel set up for under $100. Now if only I had a bench to put it on...
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I have a Harbour Freight 6 inch buffer with my 8 inch wheels mounted on it, and the whole thing is light enough to haul around and store in a closet. I have set mine up on the kitchen table with a small rubber (think place mat) mat to set it on. Works just as well as on my bench in the basement and I don't have to climb the stairs to get to it. (good for me with my bad knees) The white rouge is made by Lea Jackson and you can buy a Large chunk of it from Steve Bottoff of Sharpening Made Easy. It is about as large as 13 - 14 pieces of the size that comes with the wheel set. He is also an authorized dealer of the Razor Sharp Wheels. The compound is mixed with something that allows it to adhere to the spinning slotted wheel. Other compounds I have tried do not adhere as well. I have tried some green, black, and off brand white to no avail. The original made by Lea Jackson has worked best for me for the last two years. There are cheaper wheels available that are not as well made as the Razor Sharp, but for the small difference in price, I would stick with the original Razor Sharp.

Blessings,

Omar
 
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