Please help me! I bought a Lansky Diamond System. It sucks. No hope in that one. I bought a Spyderco Sharpmaker, very good for small knives or thin knives, but does not even get close to sharp with big blades. I just finally broke down and got a DMT course diamond hone, and tried to use the technique that Joe Tamaladge described of leaning it up against the ceramic rod. Nawp. Hardly even cuts the steel. It feels smooth after using it once. I need something that will put a RAZOR edge on ANY knife. I currently have a Newt Livesay RTAK. This is the knife i tried to sharpen. Someone please help!
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I Need a Sharpening System That Works!
- Thread starter xray
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 17, 1999
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- 98
Here:
It's the A.G. Russell Ceramic Sharpener, item # CS94. Get it. You won't regret it. It just plain works, and if you do regret it, they'll give you your money back. It makes all my knives, big or small, hair-popping sharp, and I couldn't sharpen a knife worth a damn before. I tried those kits you mentioned. No good. This works much better for me.
[This message has been edited by D. Epstein (edited 01-19-2001).]
It's the A.G. Russell Ceramic Sharpener, item # CS94. Get it. You won't regret it. It just plain works, and if you do regret it, they'll give you your money back. It makes all my knives, big or small, hair-popping sharp, and I couldn't sharpen a knife worth a damn before. I tried those kits you mentioned. No good. This works much better for me.
[This message has been edited by D. Epstein (edited 01-19-2001).]
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
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- 6,117
Xray, it's not the system, it's you. Somewhere there is a disconnect on what to do for how long or what to use. How dull is your blade to start with? How long are you honing? How long is your hone? Your bench hone should be at least 6" long (preferably 8-12").
A DMT coarse diamond hone will put a coarse edge on virtually anything. The trouble is that you have to hold your angle well and work at it long enough. The trouble with thick blades made from premium steel is that they take a lot of work to sharpen if they get very dull.
When you work with a diamond hone it is best to use medium pressure rather than very hard (to make the hone last longer). Hard pressure will work faster, but after a few knives you will notice the performance dropping off.
You need to work one side at a consistent angle for long enough to raise a burr on the opposite side of the edge. On a really dull thick blade made from a premium alloy, this could take well over 15 minutes (just to work a single side and raise a burr). When I have a lot of metal to remove I use a back and forth stroke to remove material faster. I rinse debris off the hone about every 100 strokes. I count strokes so that when I get a burr started I know about how long to hone the opposite side to get an even edge.
When I've roughed down both sides I switch to doing a few strokes edge-first on alternate sides until the whole blade is roughly sharp. At this point switch to your Spyderco rods working alternate sides until the whole edge is sharp and free of burrs.
The usual problem of sharpening is not spending enough time on the job. Working manually on a challenging knife often takes over 1/2 hour. To get my perfectionist edge on a knife for the first time can take a full hour. Another problem is trying to sharpen at too low an angle which requires removing so much material that it is inpractical by hand.
Having said all the above, you could just get a bench sander. For about $85.00 you can get a 4"x36" belt sander at Home Depot. This can save a lot of frustration on exceptionally dull and tough knives. I don't rough down my knives using my diamond hones anymore. I just use them for the finishing stages.
[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 01-19-2001).]
A DMT coarse diamond hone will put a coarse edge on virtually anything. The trouble is that you have to hold your angle well and work at it long enough. The trouble with thick blades made from premium steel is that they take a lot of work to sharpen if they get very dull.
When you work with a diamond hone it is best to use medium pressure rather than very hard (to make the hone last longer). Hard pressure will work faster, but after a few knives you will notice the performance dropping off.
You need to work one side at a consistent angle for long enough to raise a burr on the opposite side of the edge. On a really dull thick blade made from a premium alloy, this could take well over 15 minutes (just to work a single side and raise a burr). When I have a lot of metal to remove I use a back and forth stroke to remove material faster. I rinse debris off the hone about every 100 strokes. I count strokes so that when I get a burr started I know about how long to hone the opposite side to get an even edge.
When I've roughed down both sides I switch to doing a few strokes edge-first on alternate sides until the whole blade is roughly sharp. At this point switch to your Spyderco rods working alternate sides until the whole edge is sharp and free of burrs.
The usual problem of sharpening is not spending enough time on the job. Working manually on a challenging knife often takes over 1/2 hour. To get my perfectionist edge on a knife for the first time can take a full hour. Another problem is trying to sharpen at too low an angle which requires removing so much material that it is inpractical by hand.
Having said all the above, you could just get a bench sander. For about $85.00 you can get a 4"x36" belt sander at Home Depot. This can save a lot of frustration on exceptionally dull and tough knives. I don't rough down my knives using my diamond hones anymore. I just use them for the finishing stages.
[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 01-19-2001).]
- Joined
- Oct 17, 1999
- Messages
- 98
Are you serious? Well, I don't remember if it came with instructions, but it's pretty easy to figure out. That's what makes it great, besides the fact that it works so well.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2000
- Messages
- 4,798
Mr. Clark is right on the nose here, IMHO.
That RTAK should pose no problem to you. There just isn't anything magical about putting a wicked edge on 1095. Go back and follow the directions to the letter, and you should have absolutely no problem.
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Sometimes I catch myself assuming that everybody knows their way around a pocket knife. Then I remember what the first three letters of "assume" are.
- James K. Mattis
That RTAK should pose no problem to you. There just isn't anything magical about putting a wicked edge on 1095. Go back and follow the directions to the letter, and you should have absolutely no problem.
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Sometimes I catch myself assuming that everybody knows their way around a pocket knife. Then I remember what the first three letters of "assume" are.
- James K. Mattis
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
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- 29,258
I suspect that Mr. Clark has correctly called this case.
I am aware of only one sharpening "system" that can put a razor-sharp on any edge-like structure without the user first mastering some simple technique: Mr. Carl George at George and Son Cutlery in Downtown Portland, Oregon. You just drop your knive off at the shop and pick it up a few days later sharp as can be.
So, Mr. Xray, the answer to your problem is to move to a flat in downtown Portland and just take all of your knives to George and Son.
Carl George is the third-generation of George's at George and Son. He is the son of the Son in George and Son. He's been sharpening knives all of his life.
Aside from simply taking your knife to George and Son, I am not aware of any "system" that does not require some bit of effort on the operator's part to learn a bit of technique and that doesn't require some practice.
I have a Gatco Edgemate "system" that was sold to me by Mr. George since I'm not always able to get up to the store as often as either of us would like. I will not claim that the Gatco is the ultimate system available, but the fact that it is what Mr. George recommended spoke volumes to me. And, what I will assert that I get very impressive results with mine.
I did not get great results with it the first few times. Mr. George had cautioned me that it would take some learning. So, I started out on some cheap knives and just practiced. It took me ten or fifteen tries before I was really able to get great result with my Gatco which I do now.
Some time ago, a friend of mine dropped by with six M16 bayonets that he'd picked up at some surplus sale all used and all totally dull. He offered me my choice of one if I'd sharpen all six. Well, I really didn't want the thing; it's very ugly. But, as a favor, I said I would. It took several hours to sharpen all six, but I was able to shave at least some hair will all six bayonets when I was done. The one I kept has actually turned into a kitchen knife. People are always surprised to see it there in the knife block.
Anyway, the point is that all of the system's you've dismissed are fine products and, in the hands of someone who has made a small effort to learn the technique (and I'm not talking about a lifetime of learning here. The learning curve on my Gatco was maybe three hours), can produce very respectible edges on any reasonable knife.
Pick one, get some cheap knives, and go to it.
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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 01-19-2001).]
I am aware of only one sharpening "system" that can put a razor-sharp on any edge-like structure without the user first mastering some simple technique: Mr. Carl George at George and Son Cutlery in Downtown Portland, Oregon. You just drop your knive off at the shop and pick it up a few days later sharp as can be.
So, Mr. Xray, the answer to your problem is to move to a flat in downtown Portland and just take all of your knives to George and Son.
Carl George is the third-generation of George's at George and Son. He is the son of the Son in George and Son. He's been sharpening knives all of his life.
Aside from simply taking your knife to George and Son, I am not aware of any "system" that does not require some bit of effort on the operator's part to learn a bit of technique and that doesn't require some practice.
I have a Gatco Edgemate "system" that was sold to me by Mr. George since I'm not always able to get up to the store as often as either of us would like. I will not claim that the Gatco is the ultimate system available, but the fact that it is what Mr. George recommended spoke volumes to me. And, what I will assert that I get very impressive results with mine.
I did not get great results with it the first few times. Mr. George had cautioned me that it would take some learning. So, I started out on some cheap knives and just practiced. It took me ten or fifteen tries before I was really able to get great result with my Gatco which I do now.
Some time ago, a friend of mine dropped by with six M16 bayonets that he'd picked up at some surplus sale all used and all totally dull. He offered me my choice of one if I'd sharpen all six. Well, I really didn't want the thing; it's very ugly. But, as a favor, I said I would. It took several hours to sharpen all six, but I was able to shave at least some hair will all six bayonets when I was done. The one I kept has actually turned into a kitchen knife. People are always surprised to see it there in the knife block.
Anyway, the point is that all of the system's you've dismissed are fine products and, in the hands of someone who has made a small effort to learn the technique (and I'm not talking about a lifetime of learning here. The learning curve on my Gatco was maybe three hours), can produce very respectible edges on any reasonable knife.
Pick one, get some cheap knives, and go to it.
------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 01-19-2001).]
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2000
- Messages
- 736
...nods to Gollnick...
My father is a master of the benchstone, he can raise an edge on most anything. I am less patient and find it easier to use a 204...either one requires a certain level of control. The 204 is limited however, by its grit level. I find that I must go to a benchstone and strop to get the edge I want.
I wish that Spyderco would add a diamond sleeve and a 1000/1200 stick to their line.
Perhaps it is a visual clue, but I do find the vertical sharpening to be easier.
My father is a master of the benchstone, he can raise an edge on most anything. I am less patient and find it easier to use a 204...either one requires a certain level of control. The 204 is limited however, by its grit level. I find that I must go to a benchstone and strop to get the edge I want.
I wish that Spyderco would add a diamond sleeve and a 1000/1200 stick to their line.
Perhaps it is a visual clue, but I do find the vertical sharpening to be easier.
I've never had muc success on the Sharpmaker. Recently Dan O'Malley of www.bladegalley.com showed me how to use a Japanese waterstone set...in about 20 minutes of work, we ground through a chip in the tip of a mini-AFCK and got a razor edge. I am totally sold on the waterstones, but they do take longer to learn, and are a little messy. But hey...if you want a sharp knife...
~Mitch
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My Hobby Page
~Mitch
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My Hobby Page
Lenny
Gold Member
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- Oct 15, 1998
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- 2,488
Check out the thread "Opinions on sharpening Systems?" below. The name Edgepro always comes up as the best system to "Sharpen" a knife. The Spyderco Sharpmaker works great for touchups as long as the blade is still somewhat sharp. It definitely won't sharpen a "butter knife dull" blade though. I've been suffering through using the Lansky for a number of years. I've learned to use it well with all of its limitations. However, it is a pain in the butt to use. I'll probably buy an Edgepro eventually though.
Lenny
Lenny
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- Feb 6, 2000
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- 698
Get a Eze-Lap diamond sharpener model M.
Hmmm.... deja vu all over again.
Had a Lansky and sold it after owning it 2yrs. It did not "suck" and gave good results but, had some flaws for the perfectionist. Clamping setup is not great on all blade shapes. It's a pain to unclamp and reclamp when you move the blade. Angle are limited. Diamonds cut great, especially the course stones made fast work of thinning or really dull stuff. The case is nice too.
What do I use now? Just got an EdgePro. REALLY impressed so far. Will need some practice to get good and fast. The technique of switching hands when you change sides is a bit weird (I can't switch hands and gain a stroke yet...)
Had a Lansky and sold it after owning it 2yrs. It did not "suck" and gave good results but, had some flaws for the perfectionist. Clamping setup is not great on all blade shapes. It's a pain to unclamp and reclamp when you move the blade. Angle are limited. Diamonds cut great, especially the course stones made fast work of thinning or really dull stuff. The case is nice too.
What do I use now? Just got an EdgePro. REALLY impressed so far. Will need some practice to get good and fast. The technique of switching hands when you change sides is a bit weird (I can't switch hands and gain a stroke yet...)
I'll throw my two cents in here and it's prety much in agreement with everyone else.
First, learn to sharpen. Now I don't mean that in an insulting way, I just mean that learning how to put that fantastic edge takes time. The main tip I can give you, without going into lengthy detail, is no matter what sharpening system you use work one side of the blade until you raise a burr. Then work the other side until you remove the burr. Increase your grit and repeat, alternating sides. I, and a whole bunch of others here, could tell you more but it's a little time consuming - so email me if you want to ask more.
Second, as far as sharpening systems go, get an EdgePro (Apex or Pro, I have both). They are the best sharpening system I have seen and it's what I use to but an edge on my RTAK. In fact, I used to to totally regrind the edge profile. Slices up manilla rope and cigarette paper
Hope this is of some help to you, remember the most important thing to do is practice.
First, learn to sharpen. Now I don't mean that in an insulting way, I just mean that learning how to put that fantastic edge takes time. The main tip I can give you, without going into lengthy detail, is no matter what sharpening system you use work one side of the blade until you raise a burr. Then work the other side until you remove the burr. Increase your grit and repeat, alternating sides. I, and a whole bunch of others here, could tell you more but it's a little time consuming - so email me if you want to ask more.
Second, as far as sharpening systems go, get an EdgePro (Apex or Pro, I have both). They are the best sharpening system I have seen and it's what I use to but an edge on my RTAK. In fact, I used to to totally regrind the edge profile. Slices up manilla rope and cigarette paper
Hope this is of some help to you, remember the most important thing to do is practice.
Chefget
Gold Member
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- Nov 2, 1998
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- 5,110
Just got an Edge Pro about two weeks ago....
...have been working in pro kitchens since '81 and I have NEVER seen such edges!!!
My knives are screaming sharp. One cook said they were too sharp! After sharpening one can look down the edge and the grind line is *perfectly* straight and even. Edge Pro can get a perfect burr in 2 minutes on the dullest knife.
And it only took purchasing 43 other sharpeners to find this one!!
-Michael
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...have been working in pro kitchens since '81 and I have NEVER seen such edges!!!
My knives are screaming sharp. One cook said they were too sharp! After sharpening one can look down the edge and the grind line is *perfectly* straight and even. Edge Pro can get a perfect burr in 2 minutes on the dullest knife.
And it only took purchasing 43 other sharpeners to find this one!!
-Michael
------------------
Chefget's Knife Page
Cook?
RecipePack Kitchen Management software
I got a lansky a decade ago and it's frustrating I can't sharpen small knifes or blades on it. BUT - I did finally get a shaving edge on an old thickblade folding kbar by working on the edge with the dremel first, then I used a shallow angle for awhile, then finished the edge with a slightly steeper angle. Now I have a nice edge I can touch up.
I was told the spyderco can do serrated edges too and was going to get one but the store is out for now. I may look into the edgepro. I don't have many knives but I like the ones I have to be sharp.
I was told the spyderco can do serrated edges too and was going to get one but the store is out for now. I may look into the edgepro. I don't have many knives but I like the ones I have to be sharp.
Mykl Clark
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xray, I'm with Jeff on this one. All the systems you tried will work if you do it right. I'm not trying to bash you sharpening takes patience and (more importantly) practice. I personally use a Sharpmaker most of the time on all sizes of knives with no problems. If it needs serious reprofiling then I do so with the Lansky and finish with the 204. Of course if you're just looking for another system then get an edgepro apex, it's like a demi- god of sharpeners. And hey if that one doesn't work for you give it to me.
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Mykl
Anxiously awaiting my BM 42A
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Mykl
Anxiously awaiting my BM 42A
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I'll second what Chef said!
I tried the Lansky and the Sharpmaker. For an even bevel, polished finish, and shaving sharp edge you just can't beat an Edge-Pro.
Brent...
http://business.gorge.net/edgepro/
I tried the Lansky and the Sharpmaker. For an even bevel, polished finish, and shaving sharp edge you just can't beat an Edge-Pro.
Brent...
http://business.gorge.net/edgepro/
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 9,909
I have always relied on bench stones (lately, DMT diamond hones) rather than clamps and systems, although I find a Buck guide very useful for establishing a good bevel. Razor-Edge Sharpening Systems offers a variety of sharpening stuff, and Lee Valley Tools also has an excellent book on sharpening, along with hones, strops, stropping compounds, etc.