I need educatin' about knives

Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Messages
9
Please help educate me about knives. I am interested in buying a better hunting knife. I see the knife as a tool to skin, gut and dismember an animal, not as a prize collector’s item.

I bought a Kershaw a few years back after having used a Schrade for several years. I like the Kershaw better because it is smaller and lighter and has rubber grips. It is 4” long when folded and 7.2” long when open. It weighs 2.7 ounces. I like the rubber grips bcs they do not slip in my bloody hand. I am interested in getting a knife similar to the Kershaw as far as design, weight and size goes but with better steel that will hold its edge longer. I also want the new knife to have rubber or a similar grip.

I saw a Kershaw today that had a Compressed Powdered Metal blade. I was told that it is harder than ATS-34 and that it will stay sharp longer but that it will be harder to resharpen. I have also been looking at the ceramic bladed knives. I understand that they are even harder and sharper and rarely need to be resharpened, but if they do then they need to be sent back to the factory. I also understand that they really should only be used as a skinning knife and that they are fairly brittle so no prying.

Another question I have is why would a hunter buy a $1000 knife rather than a $50 knife if both knives were made of the same steel and were the right size, shape, weight etc? Would the $1000 custom knife be any sharper? Would it hold its edge any longer? If so why/how? If they were made of the same steel I would expect them to be the same in edge holding ability. I understand that tempering is a very important aspect. Does the way the blade is tempered affect the hardness? Is it possible for a blade made of ATS-34 to have a hardness of 55 and another to have a hardness of 61? Some folks have suggested that I should get a knife with a hardness of about 58-61 for best results. If I can get a Gerber with an ATS-34 blade with a hardness of 59 would that be as good as a $1000 custom blade with ATS-34 at a hardness of 59? The other aspect is how the blade is sharpened. Does Gerber know how to sharpen a blade? Do they properly sharpen them or do they cut corners in order to keep cost down? If I were to buy a $1000 custom knife that was properly tempered and sharpened would it always be better than a $50 knife as far as sharpness goes assuming that I would be resharpening it the same way I would be resharpening the $50 knife. I should say that I realize that I will need to learn about how to keep these blades sharp since they are a harder steel and therefore more difficult to sharpen than what I am used to. However I doubt that I will ever be able to sharpen a blade like the custom guys can do it. So all in all I wonder if the $1000 knife would only be better (if it were ever better in the aspect of sharpness) until I resharpened it and then it would only be as good as the $50 knife.

I will appreciate your comments, Rufous.
 
Why would someone purchase an Aston over a vette. For some people $1000.00 might as well be $50.00 and they are willing to pay for something really special. It sounds like you and I breath a more simple air - may I suggest you purchase a CS Master Hunter Carbon V. You will have a fine hunting knife, sure to serve you well. ;)
To answer your questions - you can obtain similar performance from both a production and a custom knife. Just as you can go as fast in a vette as you can in an Aston.
 
In the realm of like steels I see your point about them being the same. But if you look at production knives, you'll find 440A and it's equivelents for most knives. At best, you'll find one or 2 with ATS34. There are a couple reasons they use these, first is cost, 2nd is ease of working. Machine made, mass assembled. I can't buy ATS34 for a fixed blade for the price they have in the whole knife, labor included... Now compare these steels with a good using carbon like 1084 or 52100, and you'll know the difference right off. Add to the steel the forging process and what it does to the knife and you'll love it. A reason to buy a handmade is not something many knifemakers can put into words, it just had to be experienced. Get a good 52100 blade in your hands and try to ruin it. cut down whatever you feel like cutting down, and check your edge. It should amaze to you.

I went to my first "real" knife show, the PKA show North of Dallas in 1997 or so. I had just started making some stock removal fixed blades in ATS34, and there was a bladesmith there explaining why a forged blade made a better knife. He went into the magic the forge and maker can do, the edge packing, and *poof*, mystical blade that never goes dull...

I listened, but deep down, I didn't actually believe it... until I made my own several years later. I got the actual chance to try to abuse and tear up one of my own knives. It was 5160, differentially heat treated, and it stayed sharp through 5 or 6 2x4's, rope, shaved hair, and I wrenched it through knots TRYING to tear it up. I was an instant convert. I don't have any "-ites" in my vocabulary to tell you how this converts to that, and no macical spells, and I can't tell you exactly what forging does to a knife, but I know it makes a blade perform. I have loaned out a couple knives every deer season to people that doubt the performance and ask the same question you have. "what makes it better than a $30 knife?"

Most knives do not come back, I just get a check at the end of the season. Try one some time and you'll know what I mean. I have never found a production knife that will perform to the same degree.
 
In general a custom knife will probably be heat treated in a small batch while a production knife is likely to be heat treated as part of a large batch. Some of the production knives may hold an edge as well as a custom knife with the same alloy, while some in the same batch won't be as good.

For a knife with a rubberish handle the carbon-V Master Hunter is a good choice, but may be a little big for your taste. If you are willing to look at something without the rubber, take a look at some of the Marble Arms knives with the "game getter" style handles. I think they would give you a good grip. If you find one that is a few months old it will have a 52100 alloy blade that is hard to beat. If you get a newer one it will use their newer proprietary alloy which seems to be pretty decent. These newer ones can be found with a rubbery "safe grip" handle.

Take a look here:

http://www.marblearms.com/knives/sport.html
 
You should check out the Marble's hunting knives. Their Safety Grip handles are very grippy. Marble's Knives.

As to your other question, that has been the topic of many threads on BladeForums. I personally believe that most custom knives are worth every penny you pay for them. As a matter of fact I think that they are quite often underpriced.

You do not need to spend $1000.00 to get a custom knife that will perform magnificently. There are some makers that produce knives in the $130.00 - $300.00 mark that are wonderful knives. GenO Denning, Sean Kendrick, Bill Buxton, R.W.[Ron] Clark, Phil Tham/txwoodchip and Ron Leuschen come to mind. There are others of course. Sometime you should try out a knife by one of these makers and decide for yourself if it is a better knife than what you can get for $50.00 from a production manufacturer. That is the only way you will ever know for sure.

By the way, welcome. That's a pretty darn good first post.
 
Try one of Gene Ingram's knives. http://gene-ingram.com You get a custom knife AND it's under $100.

What, then, makes a $1000 knife? Ever wondered what it would be like to have a knife made out of Damascus Steel? Or the handle made of 100 yr old deer antler? Or a scale release auto (hidden release mechanism)? What about filework? What about getting a personalized work, a one-of-a-kind? What about gilding? maybe some pearl inlays or scales?

All these factors (and many others) make the $1000 knife worth it, and in some cases, seem like a bargain!
 
My pick for an economical rubber-handle knife is the Gerber Gator. These things are really nice knives for the price, with possibly the best handle design on a production knife.

They are available in several blade shapes (including gut hooks) and both folding and fixed configurations. I know they come in both "standard" steel and high-performance ATS-34 or 154 CM. Try running some searches and you will find far more steel info than you need to make a good decision.

If you can, I would definately recommend holding a Gator before you buy your next hunting knife.

As far as why people buy big-dollar customs, I really don't know. To some people a knife is a tool, to others it is much more. I gave up trying to understand it, the important thing is that everybody eventually finds what kind of knife they are happy with.
 
Another question I have is why would a hunter buy a $1000 knife rather than a $50 knife if both knives were made of the same steel and were the right size, shape, weight etc? Would the $1000 custom knife be any sharper? Would it hold its edge any longer? If so why/how?

You've seen all the answers. Its the same for lots of other things. There are both qualitative and quantitative effects, though quantitatively, there are many many good <$100 production knives that will indeed hold an edge as long as many knives costing much more.

It is also the case that you are jumping too far out. $1000 is into the art realm. The premium custom "users" market starts at about $150 or even less for fixed blades, maybe $300 for folders. If you make the switch from folders to a small fixed blade, your dollar goes much farther.
 
CRKT make a sawtooth bowie that is not expensive. I like mine, but I want something different. It has the rubberized handle, is comfortable, etc.

I don't think it is as much the dollars as it is the amount of thought and work that has gone into what you are carying.

I inherited my Dad's custom knife. It feels great, has a very sharp edge and is very attractive. Additionally, it was something that my Dad ordered for himself and I am happy to have it.

It has led me to want to have a set made for my Step Dad and I. He is the one that taught me to hunt, fish, etc.

When it is time, my son will get one of the two.


This post may not be real coherent, but I think you get the idea.
 
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