I need help

P

Peter Henderson

Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
3
I bought some damascus blank blades recently, in fact they haven't even gotten here yet. I noticed that some of the items from the same seller said heat treated and the ones that I bought didn't. Is that a bad sign? Also the blades are coming unsharpened. I don't have much experience and was wondering if anyone could give me a few tips and what type of sharpener to use etc... Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Peter Henderson
 
Peter,First,welcome to the BF.Second,and I hate to sound like a broken record,but...
You have some blades coming,and you don't know anything about hardened vs unhardened.You don't know how to sharpen them,and I would guess you don't know much about making knives yet.Am I close so far? OK ,here is what you need to do.When the blades get there,look at them,and then set them down and don't pick them back up until you have read at least two books on knife making.Do a bunch of searches on this forum and you can find out most any newbie question.To reuse one of my pet sayings, - "Don't start brain surgery before you know anatomy!" You will avoid a lot of expense and disappointment if you follow this advise.I know waiting and learning are no fun,but it will be worth it.Do a search on starter books for newbies and you will see a good list.When you are ready to start,let us know and we will all be glad to help you along.
Stacy
 
Hi Peter

Welcome to BF. Lets start off with a few questions. Who did you get the blanks from? (Some of us may know the product and seller). Do you know what steels are used in making the damascus? We could suggest heat treat based on this. Do you have contact info for the seller. He obviously knows more about the product than anyone.

These are just some guesses way out on the edge but here goes. If they came from India - Pakistan, they will probably be pretty but nearly unserviceable for use. If they come from stateside - and are already ground blanks, there is a pretty good chance they are already hardened.

If they are already etched, you have a formidable challenge - to attach handles without scratching the etch.

Either way, don't worry too much. If we can find out what the composition is we can recommend heat treatment if needed. Even if we don't know, there are a few here who could make a good guess. Etching isn't all that hard either if necessary.

Sharpening is the last step so don't rush to that too soon. It's more technique than you'd think. Don't scratch the rest of the blade though. Keep us posted on progress and new information. You've come to the right place.

Rob!
 
First of all thanks for the help. It is greatly appreciated. I got one of them in today and it came from world knives in olympia, wa. tha label says India house damascus. It is heat treated and is made of en45 steel. the others are the ones that I am worried about. I know nothing about them. The location says Bombay India, and the company is ancientarms. I need to figure out how to put a handle on the one I got and sharpen it. If that takes reading some books thats fine. Any suggestions on anything would help me out tremendously. By the way bladsmth you are exactly right.

Thanks again,

Peter Henderson
 
The damascus from Ancient Arms is made from mostly mild steel with a bit of 1095. They claim it to be RHC55 but The stuff I had tested has been between RHC23 - 40 - as I said, pretty but of little value as a using knife. I tried re-treating it and got essentially no change. The nice thing is how cheap the stuff is. You can drill it, if necessary, as it is. If it is scratched or if you have to do some grinding on it, it can be re-etched easily, using ferric chloride from most electronic supply houses.

I'm not familiar with EN45 and one would expect that any "damascus" would have at least two types of steel. I'm afraid I can't help you with that one.

Your major task is going to be putting a handle on the blade without scratching it. Fortunately, you will be able to easily drill holes for handle pins. (I presume it is a full tang blade) You'll have to be inventive for temporary attachment, finishing to close tolerances before pinning etc. You may want to use some form of tape to protect the blade until you get the handles close.

Let us know if you bump into problems.

Rob!
 
I'll bet you got a great price on them too.
that could be an indicater that something is wrong,

Changing this part (so it does not get miss construed to mean one shop in general this was a general statement which was not called for. though there are sweat shops out there I don't want to point fingers in the wrong direction. it wasn't meant that way.)


.call the company and ask the questons about the HTing and see if you can return them if you don't feel you got a fair deal. just 2 more cents added..:)
 
Shashi used to make the steel at ancientarms.His cousin says they are made from man hole covers.From what I've seen,that may well be so.If you buy blades on ebay,buy them from known makers (US and Can. makers ).The India and Pakistan blades (AKA museum replicas,Atlanta cutlery,windlass,and a bunch more) are pretty much all wall hangers.That said you can still have fun assembling the knives.I wouldn't worry about whether the blade is HTed or not.With such a low carbon content it won't make much difference anyway.
The books I suggested will have all the info on assembling the knife up.
Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
Shashi used to make the steel at ancientarms.His cousin says they are made from man hole covers.From what I've seen,that may well be so.If you buy blades on ebay,buy them from known makers (US and Can. makers ).The India and Pakistan blades (AKA museum replicas,Atlanta cutlery,windlass,and a bunch more) are pretty much all wall hangers.That said you can still have fun assembling the knives.I wouldn't worry about whether the blade is HTed or not.With such a low carbon content it won't make much difference anyway.
The books I suggested will have all the info on assembling the knife up.
Stacy
Click to expand...
may i ask who is this cousin of mine? who thinks i make blades from man hole covers?
i dont know about this myself?
of course i cannot compare my blades to usa knifemakers but definately i do not produce rubbish and definately not from man hole covers,i am glad this so called cousin of mine did not say we use child labour or women to make our blades! :mad:
waiting for your response mr.bladesmith,
sr
 
ancientarms said:
i am glad this so called cousin of mine did not say we use child labour or women to make our blades! :mad:
sr
Click to expand...

Shashi - Good to hear from you. :)

What's wrong with women making blades? My wife is a knifemaker. You are on thin ice my friend. :D

Rob!
 
Shashi,I am sorry.I didn't mean it to sound as bad as it did.
Several of us were talking with a fellow at the Atlanta show (I don't remember for sure,but I think one of the MOP Co. guys,AKA thunderforged) and your steel came up in conversation.The fellow said that he was a distant cousin of yours,and made the comment about the manhole covers.We all laughed,and that was it.
The point I was making to Peter was that the low carbon content will preclude a very hard edge.As a decorative blade,or a fun project,your blades are fine,and the price is right.
I do have a problem with some other blade sellers (not you) who try to pass these blades off as "high carbon" damascus.
Take care Shashi,and once again,I apologize,no offense intended to you.From what I have known of you ,you are a good merchant and a very honest businessman.
Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
Peter,First,welcome to the BF.Second,and I hate to sound like a broken record,but...
You have some blades coming,and you don't know anything about hardened vs unhardened.You don't know how to sharpen them,and I would guess you don't know much about making knives yet.Am I close so far? OK ,here is what you need to do.When the blades get there,look at them,and then set them down and don't pick them back up until you have read at least two books on knife making.Do a bunch of searches on this forum and you can find out most any newbie question.To reuse one of my pet sayings, - "Don't start brain surgery before you know anatomy!" You will avoid a lot of expense and disappointment if you follow this advise.I know waiting and learning are no fun
Stacy
Click to expand...
I would take exception to this statement. Patience needs to be learned in the knife shop and there is no greater indever than the search for knowledge. Fred
 
That was the point.New people to most hobbies don't want to take the time to learn the fundamentals.You are absolutely correct - the ability to learn is the greatest skill one can attain.
 
bladsmth said:
That was the point.New people to most hobbies don't want to take the time to learn the fundamentals.You are absolutely correct - the ability to learn is the greatest skill one can attain.
Click to expand...
Just pointing out the obvious. I new it was "tounge in cheek" People just starting out in knife making don't see the mountain they are climbing. Which is probably best. Many would decline the challenge if they new what lay ahead. If you don't enjoy learning, model airplanes might be a better route to take.
Fred
 
Fred.Rowe said:
People just starting out in knife making don't see the mountain they are climbing. Which is probably best. Many would decline the challenge if they new what lay ahead. If you don't enjoy learning, model airplanes might be a better route to take.
Fred
Click to expand...

it can get as complicated and challenging as you make it.
the complications start when you start taking money for your work..:)
 
Dan Gray said:
it can get as complicated and challenging as you make it.
the complications start when you start taking money for your work..:)
Click to expand...
Amen to that Dan
 
fine all forgotten & forgiven,
but did you hear right from "mr.big mouth" of him being my cousin or did he say he was a cousin of BIN LADEN? its a shame to talk behind somebodys back,i know he has a big mouth 'cause whenever he called me for stag rolls/scales he only spoke about millions of dollars of orders,
anyway dig graves for others & you are bound to fall into the grave yourself,
lastly why he has changed his name is a mystery ! he's a coward i guess,
thank you,
sr
 
Hi Peter,
I hope you enjoy knife making as much as I do. (I think you got lost in this thread).....Anyway, I would suggest that you try grinding a few (8-10) blades out of scrap mild steel before you work on the damascus your getting. That way you'll get a feel for how the steel will react on the grinder. I actually did a few out of wood to see how I needed to stand and hold the blade blank to get the best result. Don't get in a hurry, usually the first ones are a little less than hoped for, keep learning everything you can and if I can help in any way, I'll be glad to. Let us know how things turn out.:thumbup:
 
Thanks again, guys, and/or girls, for all of the help. I had a friend who works for a knife maker bring me a few books, so I think I'm gonna take what I got and run with it before I accidentally start another argument. Hopefully my mistakes will be kept to a minimum. Thanks again,

Peter Henderson
 
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