I need Imput.

G

Grendel's Bane

Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
7
Well I have been a bad boy I went to the Randall knife web site and had them send me their catalog. Big mistake. The sneaky little buggers will actualy let me put $20 down to hold the price for me. Hey the way I figure it if they will let me have three years to pay it off, I may not turn them down.

So what is the consciences? Is a Randall knife worth the money? Are they that much better then a Buck, Gurber or even a K-Bar? (That is a loaded question on this forum).

Which model? Part of this is just because. If I want to dress or skin a deer I have my old home made knife or my Buck Folding Hunter. If I get in a knife fight I have my head screwed on bassakwards. And if I have to get in a knife fight I have my CCW and a .357 Mag or a .45 ACP. Can't shave with either of them but I think they would do for me if someone brought a knife to a fight.

I am torn between the Model 5 in a 7" blade or the Model 14 or 16. Probably with any of them I would go with a black Micarta handle in the Border Patrol configuration (not single or multi finger grooved). For some reason I shy away from the leather handle (probably because as a child I once found a leather handled hatchet that had been lost in the woods long ago and there was no leather left).

The Model 5 is not a "Military Style" knife but of course if the SHTF and you had to use it I don't think the lack of double hilt would be great handicap and in fact for general use not having the upper hilt and having the thumb notching on the top of the blade is probably a plus.

On the other hand I think that the larger tang of the Model 14 and 15 (about 1/4 inch times 7/8s of and inch) MAY make them stronger.

So that is it. I can go with the Model 5 ($7 extra I am told to sharpen the upper edge) with leather handle or with Black Micarta handle and Compass in the butt. Or I could get the Model 14 or 16 with the Border Patrol handle (in Black Micarta and Compass ($10 extra).

In any case if I get one it will have my last name etched in the blade and in 10, 20 or 30 years I'll pass it on to my son.

I don't want this for collecting, I want it because I want it and because a good knife is a good tool and sometimes and some places a big knife is a better tool.

Input I need input.

Thanks


"They
that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin
 
Grendel's Bane, Why not order a Mod 12-9 Sportsman's Bowie set up as a camp knife with a single hilt and a smaller knife that will fit your most common needs. Then have Greg Gutcher make you a double sheath to hold both of them when you can't decide which one to carry. No pun intended, it will work. //// Rhett
 
If I want to carry a LARGE knife I would carry my Kurka. A 9" blade probably goes past the limit of what I want to carry around while hunting or hikeing.

Grendel's Bane
 
I'll tell you why I bought a #16 and what I'm thinking now. I wanted a good fixed blade for my wilderness camping needs, that includes chopping small (fallen) tree/branches, splitting them with the knife as a wedge for firewood, shaving kindling, opening tin cans, and all other camp chore. I don't like carrying multiple specialized knives/ tools, and I don't believe in blade coating. The #16 is one of a few from Randall that has (almost) full tang, comes standard in staninless with a waxed sheath (important for my canoe/ fishing trips). Micarta handle is very durable, and the single hilt and thumb notch are important as well.

When I received the knife, I found the quality to be excellent, the balance is perfect, and I just wanted to use it. In the field it does everything well. At 14oz you can do some chopping with it, although an axe is much better assuming you want to carry one. The finger grip gives you a secure grip on the handle eventhough the Micarta is very smooth. That means you won't get blister after making you camp fire. The thick tang makes you feel comfortable using the knife for prying and splitting wood. The stainless steel holds an edge well. On the negative side it is a bit heavy and large (7" blade) when you are not chopping wood. At 1/4" think and saber grind it does not slice well.

My neighbour who is a seasoned hunter shown me how to start a fire the easy way without a lot of chopping, so right now I'm thinking of a #25 5". There are many people who like big knives and think they can chop with it. Well they'll shut up if you show them a chain saw :eek: and yes I've seen one in a camp site.

Barnaby
 
And how Barnaby,

Couple of years ago I put out the money for a Stihl chainsaw and it was some of the best money I ever spent. Not only the right tool for the job but the best also.

BTW my name is Dwight and I am one of the guys who will make your knife.

Your right about there being a lot of really good knives on the market that will do the job, no doubt about it. Then again I could skin a deer (or just about any american critter) with the bottom of a beer bottle if I had to. Cleaning meat ain't all that hard

Why then a Randall?

There are other makers who make knives which some people consider better than a Randall. There are certainly a lot that are fancier. There are plenty that cost more, alot more.

Why a Randall?

For me it started when I was 6 yrs old and my grandad gave me my first pocket knife. My grandad was a farmer and a police chief and was not prone to giving away geegaws. He gave me a knife because he knew a man (or boy)needed a knife. 'round here a man ain't dressed without a knife in his pocket. I learned that knives were necessary tools and you should always have one with you, especially in the woods. Any man that had to ask to borrow a knife was either a city slicker, a sissy or an idiot.

(I'm about to get to the why Randall part)

When I was 15 I met, of all things, a preacher who had a collection of the most beautiful knives I had ever seen. He used these knives to teach us kids about quality, not so much in knives as in people. He showed us how sharp they were and how well they were made and that they were made just down the road in Orlando by a man named "Bo" Randall. I immediately went home and started rummaging around my dads little shop for stuff to make a knife with and immediately began to ruin one of my dads mill files trying to make a knife. And, with a little help from my dad I did. Make a knife that is. It was ugly but it cut like all get out. But it wasn't a Randall

After various other jobs at 21 I went to work at the Randall shop. I could not believe a man could be so lucky as to make beautiful, well made knives for a living. A lot of the shine has worn off that initial wonderment. Not about the knives but about the job. When you hear that Randalls are hand made believe it. I have got the sore back to prove it. But I still love the knives themselves. After twelve years in the business I know quite a bit about our knives and other knives as well and our knives are worth it, every penny. They will go to the wars and back again.

As far as what to take to the woods I think the #5 with a leather handle is a good choice. I would go with the 6 inch myself. I like the leather handle 1) because it don't cost extra 2) after the shine wears of it will give a good solid grip thats easy on the hand, and 3) it doesn't feel cold in cold weather

I must say I like the stag better though, especially if it has a little rough texture and a nice dark bark. It is also lighter if you leave off the butt cap.


The 16 is a good knife too but I would opt for the lighter weight of
a 5 or something similar. BTW I think you can get a wax sheath for just about any model although you may have to special order it from our sheath maker. (you can deduct the cost of a stock sheath and put that towards the wax one) The 16 is more rugged if you anticipate heavy chopping or other chores (which brings us back to the chainsaw).

Hope I haven't been too long winded and have been at least a little helpful

Dwight
 
The Model 5 is tempting and your comments reguarding the leather handle vs. Micarta make sense. But which makes for a stronger knife? Leather or Micarta? And Tell me more about the "Wax" sheath? I don't remember seeing it in the catalog.

Grendel's Bane
 
Hi Dwight,

You might not be making my knife because there is one out there ready for delivery :D However I do have a question on O1. I consider myself "lazy" as far as maintenance goes. Toronto is FAAARR away from the coast line, so I don't have to worry about salt water. However I will not oil my knives, period. I do wipe it clean right after use. But in the field I might not have fresh water to clean it, that means just wiping it on my pants or whatever. Also I don't mind evenly developed patina. So should I go with O1 or stainless?

With Micarta on my #16 I don't have to worry about the handle. I heard that stag will absorb moisture, so will it get stained easily? Also what kinds of maintenance is required on the leather handle? I thought about leather before but looking at my shoes :o I decided Micarta is the way to go, at least for me.

Thanks,
Barnaby
 
There is no doubt that micarta is a much stronger material tham leather. Using it for your handle will increase the knifes overall structural integrity. Micarta has a lot going for it or we wouldn't offer it. It is nearly indestructible even under heavy use, it is water proof, and it is inorganic so it will not rot. We sell a lot of special order knives with micarta handles so a lot of people like it. I suppose if I could only have one knife for the rest of my life and I planned on using it a lot I would opt for micarta.

However, if you are the kind of guy who takes good care of his gear and you store a leather handle inside out of the weather it should last you for your lifetime. It will get dark and lose its smooth polished look but it should hold together well. The only ones we get back for repair have usually been subjected to extremes of humidity and were allowed to dry rot. Or someone let their dog get ahold of it, we get that quite frequently. By the way you can preserve your leather handle the same way you preserve your leather shoes, a good boot polish. In our museum we have some knives made by Scagel and their handles are in fine shape after 63+ years.

As far as the carbon steel question, if you don't mind a dark blue patina (from the salts in blood)you shouldn't have a problem. I would clean the knife well when I got it home and store it out of its sheath. If you don't get all the blood off and you resheath you may get some rust. If it is not a collector piece and you aren't too worried about the finish you can always clean off any rust with a scotch brite pad.

Of course you could always go whole hog and get the micarta handle and a stainless blade. I think our stainless blades hold an edge better than our carbon steel and you don't have to worry about it. It is a little more expensive and a little harder to put an edge on if it gets dull but I don't hesitate to recommend it. Stainless steel got a bad rap years ago because it is harder to sharpen and many manufacturers were using cheaper steels that don't hold an edge. Much of the problem is attributable to the edges being to thick, you remember those guys who show their knives cutting through a nail? A thick edge is good for stunts like that but it ain't worth a hoot for cutting meat. Suffice it to say that a properly ground blade made from a quality stainless steel is as good as it gets in the knife game.

With all that said it is going to boil down to what you like. In a way it doesn't really matter what kind of Randall knife you get, it is bound to be a good knife. If it ain't the shop will give you your money back. You can't lose.

Oh, about the wax sheath. If you order the knife from a dealer I am not sure about their policy as regarding sheaths. I do know that the shop will deduct the price of the sheath from your order and you can order another from Sullivans holster shop. If you call the Randall shop (407-855-8075 EST) they can give you Sullivans phone #. Greg Gutcher who operates Sullivans makes a lot of custom sheaths for people and he should have no problem. If you are ordering your knife from an authorized Randall dealer he should have no problem deducting the sheath. If not you may not be able to. If you are really interested in the wax sheath email me and let me know and I will try to find out your best way to go about getting one.

My fingers are tired, I'm leaving now

Dwight
 
Randall is evil, evil I tell you. I have spent the last week (off and on to be sure) going over the Randall catalog and web site and have come to the conclusion that I need at least 2 Randall’s (not that I can afford any). I have even been in e-mail contact with Gary Randall twice now.

The Model 1 is simply elegant. The Model 14 and Model 16 seem kind of practical in an impractical fashion if you know what I mean. I am not going to get into a knife fight, I am not a Navy Seal or Commando so if I do get into a knife fight I plan on dieing (not an option), running or drawing (.357 or .45acp). They might be a good utility knife for camping and hunting (not the best skinning knife in the bunch, but they would do) but to be frank, of late (since the birth of #1 son (6), #1 daughter (4) and #2 daughter (11mo) I find that my camping is done from a Van in camp sites and my hunting has been limited ($$$ you know). True, this will change in a few years and but still I don't think that a "Combat/Survival" knife is what I need (want however, is another thing).

I find myself drifting towards the Model 5-7", but by the time I pimp it out (Mircarta handle, Thong, Butt cap, Nickel Silver hilt and Name etching) I'm looking at $300. Might as well buy the Model 14 or Model 16. It's not like SHMBO(s) (She Who Must be Obeyed)(sometimes) is going to like my wearing ANY knife that big. It took a few years and one freak around our camp + a Black Bear who tried to raid our camp, before she saw the light on my ALWAYS carrying a gun when we/I am out in the woods and even then she does not like it to be visible (Don’t try to run with a Gov. Model in a fanny pack worn in front. Take it from me, it hurts).

I guess I could go just a base leather model of the Model 5-7”. That would only run $260 after mild pimping (Name Etch, NS Hilt and Thong), $290 or so if I went Stainless Steel (see above problem).

In all honesty, just looking at the catalog I don’t see a whole lot of difference in the actual Blade of the Model 5, 16 or 14. The Model 1 looks to be a little narrower top to bottom. It looks like mostly the hilt and handle makes the major difference. Is this the case?

I do find my self drifting towards the Model 5, and I love the handle on the Model 25. How durable is a Stag handle vs. Leather. You know, water, blood, dogs? How much would that handle add to the Model 5? And lets face it, if Walter Mitty did get into a knife fight with a Model 5 the odds on the outcome being decided by the single hilt vs. a double hilt are slim.

I guess like I said at the top I think I “NEED” 2 of them. A Model 5 (or Model 16 or Model 14) for camping and to satisfy the Walter Mitty in me, and a Model 25 –5 for hunting. Then there is the very elegant Model 1. Ok so maybe I need three.

Again in 20, 30 or 40 years (I would be 84 then) the knife(s) I will be giving these knifes to # 1 son or to #1 or # 2 daughter depending on interests. I am getting these for use, because I like knives and I respect quality. Not for investment.

Help.

Grendel’s Bane
 
Well if you are thinking of passing your knives to your children then for sure you can justify ;) getting 3 Randalls. However if you can only buy one for now, and you see yourself doing car camping for the next few years, a #25 (probably a 6" one) should do the job.

If you need to chop firewood or fan off a bear, get a 9" like what Rhett recommended. Other than than I don't understand why anybody would need a 1/4" thick saber grinded blade for regular daily use. It just does not slice well. Look at all the kitchen knives offered by Henckels, they are all thin flat grinded blades. That's why I'll pick the #25 over #5. Both are 1/4" thick, but the #25 has a thinner profile.

If you are sure you need two knives, then get a big one and a #26 which is excellent for skinning. BTW the #27 is quite nice too :D Of course the above are just my not so humble opinion worth $0.02. I myself is waiting for a 3/16" thick 6" knife (not from Randall) to arrive before making up my mind on the #25. It would be a no brainer if I could order one with a Micarta only (no leather) handle.

Barnaby
 
Way too much thought. Stop stressing.
Dude, get a knife and use the freeking thing.
They all work.
By the way, Buxton has a bunch all the time, right now.
 
IIRC, he was out of what I wanted when I played phone tag with about half a dozen Randall dealers, as was everyone else.
 
Ok, I bit the bullet and sent off a money order and a (I hope) coherent order for my Randall. I decided (but I still reserve the right to change my mind) a 7” Model 5 with Name Etch, Nickel Silver Hilt and a leather handle. I also requested that they send me a quote for a handle like that that they show on their Model 25. If they don’t get back to me in a week or so I’ll give them a call and ask about it. Now I get to stress out over Randall number 2. That will probably be a Model 26 or a 8.


Grendel's Bane
 
I can save you the time of waiting for an answer to the 25 style handle on the mod. 5. Currently that is not an option on that mod.
The only ones that you can get with the 25 style handle are the Mods. 25, 26, 27, and the 12-9 with the 14 grind. Consideration has been given to making that handle available on other mods. but for now only those 4. Greg
 
That is just too bad. That is one pretty handle that the Model 25 has and I think it would look very nice on my (three years hence) Model 5. Well I can live with in on a Model 26.

Maybe you (or someone) can answer a question for me. Looking at the catalog and photos on the Randall Website it looks to me that the blade shape of the Model 5 is very similar to that (read identical) of the Model 14 /16 with the exception that the false edge on the back of the blade is not sharpened. Is this true?

Thanks

Grendel's Bane
 
:eek: An update on the 12-9. The 25 style handle is available on both the sportsman grind and the 14 grind. I stated in my previous post that it was available on only the 14 grind, Sorry. Greg
 
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