I Need Some Help with an Old Camillus

Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
127
I was given a lot of eBay knives for Christmas this year by a family member, and although most of the knives are admittedly crap (although I'll still cherish them, because I'm oddly sentimental like that), this gem was among the mess.

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I spent some time cleaning it up, and after a bit of research, learned that this particular model is the "Easy-Open Jack". What I'm hoping someone much more knowledgeable about vintage knives than myself can tell me is how old this knife might be. If not the year it was produced...perhaps a decade. Just something. I think this is a cool piece of history, and I'd love to learn more about it.

And, second on my quest (which may be better suited for the Maintenance forum...but I figured I'd try here just in case anyone had run into a similar problem with an older knife), is to figure out how to get the damned thing back to useable condition. I'd like to carry it every now and again. As I received it, both blades were dull as butter knives, and the main blade had a nice chunk taken out of the front, like someone had used it as a screwdriver. Using my Lansky Turn Box, I managed to fix the chip (not the best re-profiling job, but it will do), but my main problem is that this steel, whatever it is, simply refuses to take an edge. I'm not claiming to be an expert sharpener, but I have had nothing but success with the Lansky system, and have been able to keep all of my knives razor sharp at my preferred 40 degree bevel. I spent probably an hour on this knife, stepping the blades through first the medium, then the fine grit rods, and aside from working out that nasty chip in the blade, all I managed to do was sharpen the rear portion of each blade. From about midway, all the way towards the tip, the blade is still dull. Thinning out but dull.

So, today I threw caution to the wind and ran the blade through a Smith's carbide pull through sharpener I had lying around. I hate using it because it takes off so much metal, but I figured that this may just need a bit of a kick start. After a couple of runs on that, the blades were still dull up front, and sharp in the rear. Sharper to the touch than they had been,but I can still run my finger along the front portion of the blades with no problem.

Is this an issue commonly encountered with older knives? I have encountered steels that will simply not take an edge, like crappy steels you find in dollar bin knives and such, but it seems to me that an old work horse like this ought to be able to take an edge...and it's been proven by the fact that half of each blade has thus far taken an edge, and quite a tolerable one at that. Any suggestions on this front short of sending it off to be professionally sharpened?
 
...all I managed to do was sharpen the rear portion of each blade. From about midway, all the way towards the tip, the blade is still dull. Thinning out but dull...
Is this an issue commonly encountered with older knives? I have encountered steels that will simply not take an edge...

It looks like the blade loss is around 25% from sharpening so it's probably much thicker than the original edge. Once you get a new bevel set, it should be OK. American knives that old typically have good steel and take a great edge.
 
looking at that -the front of the blade has taken a lot punishment over the years. both from use and sharpening. keep at it with the lansky if you really need to get it sharp. stay away from less conventional sharpeners. i like that crossed cutlass stamp. maybe its had its day .time for a cosy rest in the drawer.
 
The Camillus Sword Brand was introduced in 1906,,,though I don't know how long the tang stamp was used.
 
Many older knives were heat-treated to lower hardness values; sometimes in the 40s on the RC scale. Even so, the steel usually takes a very fine edge. Almost without exception, the older knives I've sharpened are a bit of an adjustment, if one is used to sharpening more modern blades. Especially if using very aggressive abrasives, like diamond hones, great care must be taken to go very, very light with pressure. Otherwise, it's real easy to create & erase a burr in a single pass. This makes it seem as if the edge never gets apexed, if one isn't closely watching for the burr with each stroke. One way to ease that a bit, is to use only the finer hones, and with very light pressure. Check frequently for the burr formation.

I don't mean to be critical, but the mention of using the crossed-carbide pull-thru sharpener on this fine, old knife made me cringe. Those things really tear up an edge. The 'bite' they add to an edge is largely due to the burrs and other torn-out fragments of steel left in it's wake. They will fold or break off quickly, and the edge won't last. If it were me, I'd put that thing away.
 
It looks like the blade loss is around 25% from sharpening so it's probably much thicker than the original edge. Once you get a new bevel set, it should be OK. American knives that old typically have good steel and take a great edge.

That's good advice. A new, clean bevel will make a big difference at the edge. I think a flat hone would work better to accomplish that, as opposed to using the ceramic sticks. The ceramic rods don't remove metal very quickly, and the small contact area will exert a lot of pressure on the edge, which makes it too easy to round it off or roll over. Even some wet/dry sandpaper (silicon carbide, like 3M or Norton) on a piece of glass would work well to put a new bevel on it.
 
Many older knives were heat-treated to lower hardness values; sometimes in the 40s on the RC scale. Even so, the steel usually takes a very fine edge. Almost without exception, the older knives I've sharpened are a bit of an adjustment, if one is used to sharpening more modern blades. Especially if using very aggressive abrasives, like diamond hones, great care must be taken to go very, very light with pressure. Otherwise, it's real easy to create & erase a burr in a single pass. This makes it seem as if the edge never gets apexed, if one isn't closely watching for the burr with each stroke. One way to ease that a bit, is to use only the finer hones, and with very light pressure. Check frequently for the burr formation.

I don't mean to be critical, but the mention of using the crossed-carbide pull-thru sharpener on this fine, old knife made me cringe. Those things really tear up an edge. The 'bite' they add to an edge is largely due to the burrs and other torn-out fragments of steel left in it's wake. They will fold or break off quickly, and the edge won't last. If it were me, I'd put that thing away.

I normally avoid them like the plague, but in this case it was more of an experiment to see if the knife would take an edge at all. I can promise you that these two will never meet again though. ;) I'll return it to the Lansky on the finer grit rods and see if anything improves...if not, then this puppy will become a drawer queen, like meako suggested. I never planned on it becoming a real heavy user anyway, just something to carry on occasion. My main goal was to work the chip out of the tip, so putting a workable edge on it is a bonus...either way this knife is currently one of the gems of my slipjoint collection.

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of that reference thread. All indications do in fact point to me having a knife produced between 1941 and 1946! Certainly interesting to own something with history.
 
Those pull through sharpeners are horrible.If you want to spend the cost of shipping on it,ill reset the edge bevels for you.I love old beaters like that.
 
I don't mean to be critical, but the mention of using the crossed-carbide pull-thru sharpener on this fine, old knife made me cringe. Those things really tear up an edge. The 'bite' they add to an edge is largely due to the burrs and other torn-out fragments of steel left in it's wake. They will fold or break off quickly, and the edge won't last. If it were me, I'd put that thing away.

What David said. (Only with me there was an audible gasp along with the cringe.)

If you are new to sharpening, I might suggest that you do some reading in the Maintenance Forum. David and a lot of others there can help you.

Forum > Knife Specific Discussion > Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/794-Maintenance-Tinkering-amp-Embellishment
 
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