I need to get into sharpening.

Z

Zach Gulsby

Joined
May 17, 2012
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137
I need to start sharpening my own blades. I have plenty of time on my hands (money is another story) and I'm thinking that I might as well just buy some stones and get into freehanding. I've never done it before, but have watched my fair share of videos, and understand the concepts. Is it even worth my time to purchase a designated angle sharpening system like the Edgepro, Sharpmaker, or the Lansky when I want to achieve a hair whittling, mirror edge? I've always read on BF that the best edges are produced through freehand sharpening.

My issues with freehanding lie in the fact that I don't know how I'll be able to estimate or keep a consistent angle, or put on a microbevel/apply similar complex methodology like convexing. Is this just acquired through practice and techniques such as sharpie application? Should I even be factoring these worries into my purchase and instead just throw myself into it? Are there other factors that I should be considering when thinking about a sharpening system vs freehanding?
 
All methods/systems have their pros and cons. Gotta start somewhere, plenty to read and learn on here. A sharpmaker would not be a bad and economical place to start and learn fundamentals. YMMV
 
Youre going to have to jump in with both feet and just start sharpening your knives, but i'm telling you, it takes A LOT of practice and reading to get good, and then more practice! Always remember "Technique > Equipment", you dont need a full range of $200 japanese water stones to get razor sharp edges. Start practicing with some basic stones on cheap knives with softer steel until you get good at it. If you have higher-end knives that you want sharp NOW, I would seriously recommend getting the Spyderco Sharpmaker for about $60 or less. Its super easy to get wicked sharp edges (with a 40degree microbevel) on the sharpmaker and you will also develop the fundamentals needed for freehand sharpening in the process. If you have very dull knives, or plan to re-profile, you will also need to buy the "diamond rods" since the basic system only comes with medium and fine rods. If you want a mirror polish on your edge, buy the "ultra fine rods", I will say though, they're not necessary to get a screaming sharp edge, with the basic kit you can produce awesome edges that will push-cut phonebook paper easily... "Hair whittling" is a novelty since that fine edge only lasts through a couple cuts through thick paper or cardboard, most people have no practical need for such a polished edge. 1 more thing you need to remember PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!
 
one good way to learn to keep angles steady i think is to start with touch-ups on the factory edge. the forumers can give you a rough estimate of your particular knife's factory sharpening angle. then go to an online trigonometric calculator and compute how many milimeters the spine should clear the stone (your opposite side) using the widest part of the blade as your hypothenus.

once you can attack the entire edge from the choil to the tip at a constant angle, you can consider a full edge profiling.
 
My 2 cents - I cannot imagine any guided system being as versatile as learning freehand, so well worth the effort as opposed to a system or machine (unless you plan on making money sharpening stuff).
At the basic level, there are three skills needed, and they are all based on feel.

You need to teach your hands to hold whatever you're sharpening at the desired angle or very close to it. This is more important for repairing a damaged knife, grinding a new bevel angle, or giving a knife its first sharpening after leaving the factory. it is important to get a feel for what is an effective angle to work at over one that is too broad or in some cases where it is to acute. This based on muscle memory and using some sort of angle reference at first. You can simply fold a piece of paper from the corner a few times - first fold is 45 degrees, second is 22.5, etc - or you can make some other guide using a protractor or roofing square. 15 degrees/ side for 30 degrees inclusive is a good average.

Second is learning to feel the apex as you move the blade across a stone. No shortcuts, but not that difficult either once a fairly clean bevel exists. Getting to that point is where the first skill comes in. The ability to feel the apex is the key to good freehand edges - there is no visual cue that can reliably give this sort of precise information to your hands, must be learned by feel. I'll add to this the ability to feel the apex when stropping or backhoning - an essential finishing technique. Very important not to make the edge angle larger by feeling too aggressively for the apex, either when grinding or finishing.

Third is the ability to moderate pressure on the stone/strop while feeling the apex. Again this has to be learned by feel.

None of these is too difficult to learn, but you have to learn it and stay focused while applying it. There are plenty of other skills needed, such as how to reliably detect and remove a burr or wire edge (must have all three skills to be good at this), understanding edge geometry, how different steels react to various grinding media, etc.

My simple advice to start is to pick up a combination stone - I have a strong and growing bias toward silicon carbide from a quality manufacturer like Norton - a couple of cheap knives, and a Sharpie. Just use the coarse side to grind fresh edge bevels at a predetermined angle by using your folded paper or similar as a rough guide. Start on one side, raise a burr, switch to the other side. Once you get used to this, you'll also be getting used to feeling the apex on the stone (feedback diminishes as you move to finer stones, so might as well get a foundation the easy way). Practice using the lightest pressure you can while still maintaining good contact with the stone. There you have it. By the time you've ground a few new edges on some cheap knives you'll also have gotten a crash course in grinding around the belly (curve in the blade), burr formation and steel debris (swarf) build-up on the stone. Removing the burr involves flipping it from side to side with the lightest possible pressure till it shrinks down to the point where it can be removed and refined using a stropping motion on cardboard, leather, newspaper, or similar with or without abrasive compounds or slurries.

OK not quite this simple, but not a whole lot more complicated either. There are a lot of videos out there. Whatever type of stone or finishing methods you adopt (doesn't have to be waterstones), I highly recommend the Murray Carter vids to see specific grinding technique along the length of the blade. His "push cutting toilet paper" is a nice one that shows how he grinds a fresh apex on a medium grit stone - this will work with any hard stone (be advised - his finishing technique on the polishing stone may or may not work well with other types of stones tho his newspaper stropping is great for a finishing touch).
 
Having the right tools is critical. Yes, there are those who believe freehand is the only way to go but honestly there is so much higher of a margin of error not to mention the time to sharpen via freehand. I use the wicked edge system for reprofile and the spyderco sharp maker for touch ups. Having the right equipment makes all the difference in the world. I know the wicked edge is pricey but trust me, this system is amazing. I am shocked with the results I can get. Nothing I've ever used to sharpen can touch it. I'm talking the most amazing mirror polished hair popping edges ever. I love using it. Invest in it, you won't be disappointed. The spyderco sharp maker is a wonderful sharpener for touch ups but it will not reprofile. To bring the edge to center, you need something like the wicked edge. I tried sharpening knives that needed reprofile on the sharp maker and could never get the very sharp because the edge was off.. I could never get them sharp until I reprofilled using wicked edge. Very few sharpening systems will bring the edge to center. This took 2 years on constant sharpening and experimenting before I figured this out. Go to YouTube and type in wicked edge sharpening.
 
As always, you guys have provided me with great feedback and information. I'm thinking that I'll pick up a system like the Wicked Edge or the Edge Pro in addition to some stones. It would be nice to know both... a system would allow me to sharpen quickly and accurately and stones would allow me to learn freehand sharpening techniques.
 
A simple and inexpensive way to get acquainted with much of the 'feel' aspect, would be to use a simple guide, like an Aligner clamp from DMT for about $15 or less, and use it with the bench stone of your preference. While using the guide, pay very close attention to the points highlighted by HeavyHanded earlier, like feeling for the apex and regulating pressure. Keep tabs on how the edge is responding after every 2-3 passes on the stone. I view a guide sort of like 'training wheels' as used on a bicycle. Early on, you'll obviously rely heavily on them to keep everything in balance. With some practice, the natural feel for riding the bike begins to sink in, and you'll get to a point where you'll almost forget the training wheels are there. That's the time to take them off and assume full control on your own. With the guide clamped to the blade, the exact same motion can be used as with free-handing, but with the added assistance with holding the angle. Pay close attention to what it 'feels like' to hold the angle, and work as if the guide isn't there. Also pay attention to the distance between the blade's spine and the stone, and how your fingers may be used to maintain that same height (I often keep the pad of my index or middle finger on the spine, allowing the tip to just very lightly 'brush' the stone as I work; this is a fairly handy way to regulate the angle). With repetition, your hands will become accustomed to the grip on the knife, and the motion across the stone. At some point, it may seem as if the guide itself is becoming more an obstacle to the 'natural' feel developing for the process. That's when you'll begin to feel more comfortable holding the angle on your own. At that point, take the guide off and practice the exact same grip and motion, and compare the results to those obtained while using the guide. FYI, I still do this myself. Even though my freehand skills are much improved, I still use a guide at times to re-acquaint my hands to the task of holding the angle. Going back & forth periodically, between using a guide and not, has helped quite a bit to keep my hands 'tuned up' to the process.
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
A simple and inexpensive way to get acquainted with much of the 'feel' aspect, would be to use a simple guide, like an Aligner clamp from DMT for about $15 or less, and use it with the bench stone of your preference. While using the guide, pay very close attention to the points highlighted by HeavyHanded earlier, like feeling for the apex and regulating pressure. Keep tabs on how the edge is responding after every 2-3 passes on the stone. I view a guide sort of like 'training wheels' as used on a bicycle. Early on, you'll obviously rely heavily on them to keep everything in balance. With some practice, the natural feel for riding the bike begins to sink in, and you'll get to a point where you'll almost forget the training wheels are there. That's the time to take them off and assume full control on your own. With the guide clamped to the blade, the exact same motion can be used as with free-handing, but with the added assistance with holding the angle. Pay close attention to what it 'feels like' to hold the angle, and work as if the guide isn't there. Also pay attention to the distance between the blade's spine and the stone, and how your fingers may be used to maintain that same height (I often keep the pad of my index or middle finger on the spine, allowing the tip to just very lightly 'brush' the stone as I work; this is a fairly handy way to regulate the angle). With repetition, your hands will become accustomed to the grip on the knife, and the motion across the stone. At some point, it may seem as if the guide itself is becoming more an obstacle to the 'natural' feel developing for the process. That's when you'll begin to feel more comfortable holding the angle on your own. At that point, take the guide off and practice the exact same grip and motion, and compare the results to those obtained while using the guide. FYI, I still do this myself. Even though my freehand skills are much improved, I still use a guide at times to re-acquaint my hands to the task of holding the angle. Going back & forth periodically, between using a guide and not, has helped quite a bit to keep my hands 'tuned up' to the process.
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David-

Didn't even realise such guides existed. That might be a good compromise between a system and freehanding...the "training wheels" metaphor is spot on.
 
Zach Gulsby said:
David-

Didn't even realise such guides existed. That might be a good compromise between a system and freehanding...the "training wheels" metaphor is spot on.
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I didn't fully appreciate how useful a guide could be in training the hands, until I'd used one for a while. The guide temporarily removes the distraction of holding the correct angle, while you're trying to learn the rest of the process. As I mentioned, if you pay attention to the other important aspects, such as regulating pressure and feeling the bevel flush to the hone, you can really learn a lot. Feeling the bevel when it's flush (or when it's not) is the single most important aspect, as I see it. Most of the time, the bevel will feel noticeably slicker when it's flush to the hone, and it'll feel rough if the angle is too high or too low. Once your fingers begin to notice the difference, you'll instinctively correct your angle until it 'feels right' again. The hands really will 'learn' the process with frequent repetition and practice, even if the brain isn't always consciously focused on all of it. Same sort of holds true for stropping. I 'practiced' stropping pretty obsessively (go figure) for a while and then noticed afterwards, it even pays off when using edge-leading strokes on the hard hones too. It's also all about feeling when the bevel is flush to the strop.
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
I didn't fully appreciate how useful a guide could be in training the hands, until I'd used one for a while. The guide temporarily removes the distraction of holding the correct angle, while you're trying to learn the rest of the process. As I mentioned, if you pay attention to the other important aspects, such as regulating pressure and feeling the bevel flush to the hone, you can really learn a lot. Feeling the bevel when it's flush (or when it's not) is the single most important aspect, as I see it. Most of the time, the bevel will feel noticeably slicker when it's flush to the hone, and it'll feel rough if the angle is too high or too low. Once your fingers begin to notice the difference, you'll instinctively correct your angle until it 'feels right' again. The hands really will 'learn' the process with frequent repetition and practice, even if the brain isn't always conciously focused on all of it. Same sort of holds true for stropping. I 'practiced' stropping pretty obsessively (go figure) for a while and then noticed afterwards, it even pays off when using edge-leading strokes on the hard hones too. It's also all about feeling when the bevel is flush to the strop.
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That's it. You have to be aware of what you're feeling and paying attention as you go. Combine that with frequent observation and a basic understanding of stone progressions and you're off and running. At some point you just have to put steel to stone and learn it. It is not difficult once you realize what you're doing. The level of machining required to make most of the guided systems out there has been around for at least a hundred and fifty years, why no hundred and fifty year old guided systems? Two or three generations ago, this wasn't a skill that was sought after - just about everyone knew how to sharpen things fairly well, they had to (and still do in many parts of the world). Only in the industrial West has this skill fallen into disuse and now we have industrial solutions for a non-existent problem. Unless you have a disability or need to churn out edges in the shortest possible time, your money is better spent on quality stones and cutlery.

Can you tell I have a bias toward free-hand?:) Murray Carter's "fundamentals of sharpening" is a fantastic video - when you see how quickly and with no extra gear he churns out nicely sharpened knives, you'll have an Ah-ha moment. There is nothing mysterious about sharpening stuff, it takes observant practice and an understanding of what you're trying to accomplish. As I mentioned earlier, feedback diminishes as grit count increases - the margin of error is relative to grit size as well. Master things at a fairly coarse level and you'll become proficient in less time than you imagine - it does not take years. Have fun and get into it!
 
Now for the real question..do I need the 8x3 Diasharps, or can I make do with the 6x2s? There's near a 100 dollar difference for the 4 grit kit.
 
Zach Gulsby said:
Now for the real question..do I need the 8x3 Diasharps, or can I make do with the 6x2s? There's near a 100 dollar difference for the 4 grit kit.
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If I were pondering the same question, I'd first figure out:

1.) How big are the blades I'm going to sharpen?

Real big blades will be easier to sharpen on a larger bench hone. Pocketknives and maybe mid/large folders up to 4"-5" blade length can be sharpened fairly easily on smaller hones. The latter variety make up most of the knives I sharpen, and I do everything on hones & strops smaller than 6" length, and most of that is on Dia-Folds & pocket hones.

2.) How much re-bevelling might I do?

A large coarse or xc hone would be very handy for quick setting of a new bevel on a blade. Lots of metal to remove, so a larger abrasive surface area speeds things up.

3.) What steels will I be sharpening?

Very abrasion-resistant steels like S30V or D2 will be much slower going in general, especially if re-bevelling, so a larger hone will work a bit faster than small or very small hones.

You might invest in one large hone in a coarser grit (maybe XC or C) for re-bevelling, and use smaller hones for finishing & general maintenance. Once a bevel is set on a blade, almost all maintenance can be done in short order on smaller hones anyway, UNLESS all your work is with very large blades.
 
Thanks David, your knowledge is immense and your willingness to share it is awesome. I'm putting in an order for the 6x2 diasharps and I'll be sure to report back with my experiences.
 
I'll add my $0.05 (2 cents, adjusted for inflation):

For learning freehand, pick up a mora. Any scandi grind will do, but Moras are super cheap. The wide bevels will lay nicely on the stone, so that all you have to do is keep a little bit of pressure on the edge to keep it from tilting back, and it will slide across the stone at the correct angle. The trickiest part of freehanding in my opinion is following the belly curve, since you have to raise up the handle as you get towards the tip. The scandi grind allows you to easily get the feel for this, which you can then translate to other types of grinds. I consider this an alternative to something like the Aligner as "training wheels". This is basically how I learned. The other key is the use of a sharpie to indicate where metal is being removed during sharpening, and you use that feedback to correct your angle.
 
flash900 said:
How's the Spydie Double Stuff for novices?
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It's actually the one that most of my current sharpening habits were formed around, when I was truly a novice sharpener. I habitually use smaller hones for most of my sharpening, and this is due to the habits I formed when first 'learning' how to sharpen my knives on a DoubleStuff hone about 15+ years ago. I still use it today (I have two of them, now).

The DoubleStuff and all of Spyderco's ceramics are well-suited for relatively light maintenance & touch-ups, including putting the beginnings of a polished edge on a blade. If you need to do any heavy grinding on a blade, I'd recommend something more coarse, like diamond or silicon carbide/aluminum oxide (Norton's double-sided stones have a very good rep).
 
flash900 said:
Thanks!

How about a combination of Double Stuff and strop for a novice?
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Certainly can't hurt. If light maintenance & touch-ups are all you're looking to do for now, that combination will get you off to a good start. When using ceramic hones, be sure to keep pressure very light. Ceramics work very well for straightening and/or removing wire edges on blades. The flip-side to that is, they're also very good at creating wire edges (burrs), if pressure is too heavy. With some steels, the newly-created wire edges can be amazingly stubborn to remove. Keep that in mind while you work.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Certainly can't hurt. If light maintenance & touch-ups are all you're looking to do for now, that combination will get you off to a good start. When using ceramic hones, be sure to keep pressure very light. Ceramics work very well for straightening and/or removing wire edges on blades. The flip-side to that is, they're also very good at creating wire edges (burrs), if pressure is too heavy. With some steels, the newly-created wire edges can be amazingly stubborn to remove. Keep that in mind while you work.
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Do you think this would be easier than starting off with the Sharpmaker?
 
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