I still don't get what "glass fabric" means in G-10 manufacturing

[MyLegsAreOk]

So, what exactly is "glass fabric" or "glass fibers"? I'm having a hard time picturing it. Sure fiberglass I can picture , and yes I can find diy G-10 videos on youtube but that doesn't show "glass fibers", it's more like making carbon fiber or fiberglass casts but with different glues and materials.

Can anyone she a light on to why G-10 is G-10 for me?

 

[WValtakis]

It's just fiberglass woven into fabric, nothing special.

~Chip

 

[Bigfattyt]

Have you ever seen a sheet of kevlar??? It is kind of like that many layers, soaked in resin, and pressed under pressure and heat.

Or, if you have ever laid down fiberglass sheets etc on a canoe or kayak in layers and resin coating??

 

[shunsui]

This is the general idea of glass fabric.

 

[TRfromMT]

The G10 refers to the epoxy resin used to make the composite. The glass fabric woven into it is comparable to fiberglas (maybe a different weave).

 

[007Airman]

G10 feels rougher than carbon to me, depending on the grip feel you want you can go with either and achieve similar results.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

G10 feels rougher than carbon to me, depending on the grip feel you want you can go with either and achieve similar results.

You can polish G10 to a glassy finish, or leave carbon fiber rough. Texture is based on the weave of the fabric base (smooth or rough), the amount of epoxy, and the finishing process. Some G-10, like peel ply, is intentionally rough (it gets its name from the top layer being designed to peel away, leaving a textured finish). Some carbon (marble, lightning strike) tend to be rougher in their pre-finished state than traditional twill weave carbon fiber.

 

[MyLegsAreOk]

Seems like kind marketing jargon. Depending on the cloth you use the name changes? G-10, Micarta, and FRN seem identical! All in all I can't make those kind a statements because people can just say the alloy names are marketing jargon, when we all know it makes a difference in between carbon, chromium, and vanadium levels. But, in the end it only strikes me that the big difference between them carbon fiber is so much lighter.

Oh here's an experiment I should do on that: I have a G-10 and CF spyderco dodo now, I can compare the weight both to see which is truly lighter. I'll edit this post if I need to take them apart for sharpening tomorrow. It'll be a good time to do it.

 

[knarfeng]

The G10 refers to the epoxy resin used to make the composite. The glass fabric woven into it is comparable to fiberglas (maybe a different weave).

No. "G10" is layers of glass fabric held together by epoxy resin and cured into a sheet of material termed "a laminate".

The term "G10" derives from a specification for circuit board materials, specifically, it comes from a NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association) specification, "NEMA Standard L1", "Industrial Laminated Thermosetting Products".
https://www.nema.org/Standards/ComplimentaryDocuments/LI1.pdf

"G10" in that specification is a classification that describes circuit board material made from epoxy glass laminate. The properties controlled by that specification are primarily electrical properties, dielectric strength and such. Nothing that would interest a knife knut.

These days in the knife world, "G10" has become a generic term that just means "epoxy fiberglass laminate" and really does not mean much more.

 

[M. Johnwell]

Seems like kind marketing jargon. Depending on the cloth you use the name changes? G-10, Micarta, and FRN seem identical! All in all I can't make those kind a statements because people can just say the alloy names are marketing jargon, when we all know it makes a difference in between carbon, chromium, and vanadium levels. But, in the end it only strikes me that the big difference between them carbon fiber is so much lighter.

Oh here's an experiment I should do on that: I have a G-10 and CF spyderco dodo now, I can compare the weight both to see which is truly lighter. I'll edit this post if I need to take them apart for sharpening tomorrow. It'll be a good time to do it.

The name of the material does change based on what it’s made from. G10 is fiberglass cloth; micarta is either paper, linen, canvas, or burlap usually, which means it’s weaker than g10. Frn is very different as there is no fabric in there, it’s just injection molded plastic with glass fibers in the mix.

The names change because they’re talking about different materials.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

Seems like kind marketing jargon. Depending on the cloth you use the name changes? G-10, Micarta, and FRN seem identical! All in all I can't make those kind a statements because people can just say the alloy names are marketing jargon, when we all know it makes a difference in between carbon, chromium, and vanadium levels. But, in the end it only strikes me that the big difference between them carbon fiber is so much lighter.

Oh here's an experiment I should do on that: I have a G-10 and CF spyderco dodo now, I can compare the weight both to see which is truly lighter. I'll edit this post if I need to take them apart for sharpening tomorrow. It'll be a good time to do it.

Micarta is a brand name for a line of composite laminate materials with various fabric materials. Micarta can be made using glass fiber cloth (like G10) or carbon fiber cloth as the fabric base. In the knife world, you’ll typically see the base fabric named (e.g. linen, canvas, or burlap Micarta).

FRN (fiber reinforced nylon) is a different animal: it’s plastic with chopped glass fiber mixed in. It’s not a laminate, and the plastic binder is the primary material, rather than the fabric. The plastic would be a finished material without the glass added, but the glass adds a lot of strength to the product. Because it’s not a laminate, you can injection mold it (ala Spyderco).

 

[007Airman]

Micarta is a brand name for a line of composite laminate materials with various fabric materials. Micarta can be made using glass fiber cloth (like G10) or carbon fiber cloth as the fabric base. In the knife world, you’ll typically see the base fabric named (e.g. linen, canvas, or burlap Micarta).

FRN (fiber reinforced nylon) is a different animal: it’s plastic with chopped glass fiber mixed in. It’s not a laminate, and the plastic binder is the primary material, rather than the fabric. The plastic would be a finished material without the glass added, but the glass adds a lot of strength to the product. Because it’s not a laminate, you can injection mold it (ala Spyderco).

At least someone knows that Micarta is only a brand name. Amazingly a lot of makers do not know or sadly do not care and continue to call the majority of their phenolic laminates Micarta. The only discernible difference I see is the binders used.

 

[SpyderPhreak]

At least someone knows that Micarta is only a brand name. Amazingly a lot of makers do not know or sadly do not care and continue to call the majority of their phenolic laminates Micarta. The only discernible difference I see is the binders used.

Micarta has come to represent a generic term, kind of like Kleenex. Doesn't even have to be a phenolic laminate being described.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

At least someone knows that Micarta is only a brand name. Amazingly a lot of makers do not know or sadly do not care and continue to call the majority of their phenolic laminates Micarta. The only discernible difference I see is the binders used.

In the knife world, I think the term, even if used to refer to something that’s not actually Micarta branded, carries a specific expectation of what you’re getting. It sucks for Micarta, since it sort of dilutes their brand, but at the same time it’s something that consumers see and understand. At the end of the day, I think very few consumers would care whether or not their “linen Micarta” scales were made from Micarta brand material or its equivalent from another brand. What would cause problems is an advertisement that said something like “carbon fiber Micarta,” which would likely confuse knife consumers who have wildly different expectations for what “carbon fiber” and “Micarta” are.

Micarta has come to represent a generic term, kind of like Kleenex. Doesn't even have to be a phenolic laminate being described.

Yep, it’s definitely a genericized trademark. But oddly, it only happened for some versions of Micarta laminates. I imagine a lot of folks on the forum would think you were making things up if you said your knife handle was made from carbon fiber Micarta, since those are two very different things in the knife world.

 

[007Airman]

Micarta has come to represent a generic term, kind of like Kleenex. Doesn't even have to be a phenolic laminate being described.

And that is the shame of it. Kinda lazy and deceptive too. It would be so easy to say PhenLam, oh I need to trademark that. Copy write 2019 007Airman Inc. LOL

 

[Planterz]

At least someone knows that Micarta is only a brand name. Amazingly a lot of makers do not know or sadly do not care and continue to call the majority of their phenolic laminates Micarta. The only discernible difference I see is the binders used.

And that is the shame of it. Kinda lazy and deceptive too. It would be so easy to say PhenLam, oh I need to trademark that. Copy write 2019 007Airman Inc. LOL

YES. WE KNOW.

 

[knoefz]

Pictures say more than words

 

[palonej]

Can you say........Groundhog Day???

 

[MyLegsAreOk]

Pictures say more than words

Interesting to look at. You cans see fiberglass and carbon fiber well yet in all the gun stocks and knife handles I have in G-10 I don't really "see" what the glass fiber is. Thanks for this.

Can you say........Groundhog Day???

Oh god meta comments. Hold on, calling a whaambulance for your butt hurting so bad.

 

[shunsui]

...yet in all the gun stocks and knife handles I have in G-10 I don't really "see" what the glass fiber is. Thanks for this.

When you look at G10 ALL you're seeing is resin soaked glass fabric.

It's sort of like a cake, it doesn't look like what you started with after you cook it properly.

But instead of rising like a cake, the G10 gets compressed with a vacuum press.