I suck at hand sharpening, help please

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wolverine_173

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So I suck, give me some tips.

I have a Norton india corse/fine stone one side is 100 grit the other is 320.
I also have a fallkniven DC4 diamond one side ceramic the other
and a smiths 3 in one sharpener with diamond and ceramic rods

I tried sharpening my ontario rat 3 for about an hour and it barely cuts paper and wont shave hair off my hand.

I did the marker test and I appear to be removing metal in the right area and I try my best to keep the angle the same everytime.
Do i have the wrong tools, wrong technique? Probably a combination of both. Or maybe my definition of sharp is off. I want it to push cut paper and shave hair off my hand. And I think 1095 should take long to sharpen to that level
 
Did you work up a burr? How much pressure are you using?

I use my thumb as a guide to set my angles. I use my eyes to determine my angle, then use my thumb to "feel" that angle and keep the knife in that position while sharpening.

Also 100 & 320 grit is very coarse. I use sandpaper on a piece of glass up to 2500 grit.

You may be sharpening just fine, but are getting a "toothy" edge rather that a fine polished edge.
 
I alternate right side left side each time. will that get me a burr? Or do i need to do right side a bunch then left side a bunch?
 
make sure you have a burr on one side of the blade over the whole length, so keep working on one side untill you got it. Then, work the other side to flip the whole burr over. Then, check whether your bevels are even and the apex is in the center. Then you go up the grits and do the same thing over. You can feel the bur with your finger nail, you can "pick" it, like you do with a guitar string. Depending on the stone you end with, you need to remove the burr with leather or something like that. Increase your stropping angle by a little.
 
As stated, work up a burr on both sides, then make the burr smaller, lighter pressure. Just keep practicing. You'll look back at this and laugh because you'll be so good at sharpening freehand.
 
wolverine_173 said:
So I suck, give me some tips.

I have a Norton india corse/fine stone one side is 100 grit the other is 320.
I also have a fallkniven DC4 diamond one side ceramic the other
and a smiths 3 in one sharpener with diamond and ceramic rods

I tried sharpening my ontario rat 3 for about an hour and it barely cuts paper and wont shave hair off my hand.

I did the marker test and I appear to be removing metal in the right area and I try my best to keep the angle the same everytime.
Do i have the wrong tools, wrong technique? Probably a combination of both. Or maybe my definition of sharp is off. I want it to push cut paper and shave hair off my hand. And I think 1095 should take long to sharpen to that level
Click to expand...


I sell a sharpening block that's specifically for freehand sharpening, have made a bunch of videos showing how to get good use from it, and most of these are applicable to hard stones as well, certainly the India or DC4. I cover basic burr formation, freehand angle control etc in the first video link below, might be worth a look. The full collection is on the sale thread through the link in my signature. This is the second one in the bunch - should be helpful for getting going. I'm using sandpaper, but a stone will work mostly the same way. I have a handful of others, some of which show use of the India stone specifically and a Norton econo stone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaBW1jCDOJY

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjWBLVqZqnP9LQClOESmheQ/videos

This is Jason B's youtube channel, well worth a look too, the man's technique is rock solid.
https://www.youtube.com/user/MrEdgy81?feature=hovercard

And lastly, do a youtube search of Murray Carter, pretty much all of his videos are worth a look.

I would recommend not switching sides every pass, its very difficult to maintain reasonably precise angle control when you work that way. Stay on one side for a few, then flip. If the edge is not too out of whack, you can just grind one side till there's a burr, flip and create a burr on the other side, then grind off the burr and you should have a reasonably sharp edge.
 
Yup check Jason's videos... in particular, you might look at one where he sharpens on an India stone...

[video=youtube;8VPCvd5hUVQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VPCvd5hUVQ[/video]

He pauses and gives lots of tips throughout his videos.
 
after i practice, if im still not happy with results or the amount of time it is taking would a work sharp be a good idea
 
95% technique, 5% equipment. Practice, read, watch the above mentioned videos. Rome was not build in a day either! Keep ask questions more specifically as you go along.
 
the work sharp seems to take alot of the technique out of it. and its only $70 bucks. Sounds like I would need to buy a finer stone and a very fine ceramic stone and a strop to get my desired results which would probably cost more than $70 and i worry about trying to sharpen a 3V blade on stones. I dont want to ruin an expensive stone. The work sharp uses belts that are easily replacable
 
wolverine_173 said:
after i practice, if im still not happy with results or the amount of time it is taking would a work sharp be a good idea
Click to expand...

Like anything, set some simple goals for yourself and you'll make good progress. This isn't that involved for a good EDU edge, people have been sharpening stuff for many centuries without a guided system, children, housewives, barbers, doctors etc with a treadle-powered wheel being the apex of mechanical sharpening technology for much of that span.

Most of the guided systems out there seem to produce fair to good results should you go that way. They will all be better at some and not so good at others, only freehand sharpening allows one to cover all the bases and make use of whatever is at hand wherever you find yourself. This is important, cutting edges are consumable and come on a wide variety of tools, some of which will not fit well on guided systems, or need might need ongoing touch-ups in the field to work well.

The sharpening block I make is sort of hybrid, helps quite a bit with freehand consistency and can be used with a wide variety of abrasives on pretty much any tool - essentially a bench stone with an easy button. It still doesn't do it for you. The stones you currently have can do a great deal for you once you learn how to use them (3v is supposed to be relatively easy to sharpen too), and nothing like the feeling of owning the process and the results you will get once you've learned to freehand.

Martin
 
wolverine_173 said:
the work sharp seems to take alot of the technique out of it. and its only $70 bucks. Sounds like I would need to buy a finer stone and a very fine ceramic stone and a strop to get my desired results which would probably cost more than $70 and i worry about trying to sharpen a 3V blade on stones. I dont want to ruin an expensive stone. The work sharp uses belts that are easily replacable
Click to expand...

No need for any of that. Sandpaper is sufficient in these grits/order: 100, 230, 320, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500+

Lay the sandpaper on a flat piece of glass, and maybe use some spray adhesive if it's not self stick sandpaper. Then, just sharpen as you would freehand except you must do backstrokes rather than forward. I.e. away from the edge.

Get a spray bottle with water, and spray the sandpaper between 500-2500 grit for better results.

This will get you a mirror polished edge that can push cut toilet paper, granted you did it right.
 
Can i put the sand paper on a 2x4 instead of glass?

And if i decide not to use sandpaper whay other grit stones should i get?
 
wolverine_173 said:
Can i put the sand paper on a 2x4 instead of glass?

And if i decide not to use sandpaper whay other grit stones should i get?
Click to expand...

You could put the sandpaper on whatever you want, but it might not give you the best results. Glass is pretty flat and hard so you will get a very refined and even edge using that. Try taking the glass out of an old picture frame:thumbup:

If you get stones,anything around the same grits I mentioned will be sufficient. I've looked at stones, and the ones in the 1000+ grit get expensive really quick.

You can easily get 1000-2500 grit sandpaper at any automotive store or even at a Walmart in the automotive department for under $5.
 
wolverine_173 said:
Is it the wet/dry sandpaper?
Click to expand...

It will be the silicon carbide wet/dry, the grey-black stuff. In all reality, between the DC4 and the India stone you have things covered pretty well, both are very good stones. Maybe some mineral oil for the India stone and a bit of soapy water for the diamond side of the DC4 will come in handy. Is down to practice and understanding more than materials at this point.
 
Don't give up!

It's the biggest beginner mistake, you become frustrated because it's not working and you blame the tools. You look around for "the next best thing" thinking it's going to solve all your faults but in reality it just sets you back further in the learning process.

IMO, new sharpeners and power tools are a bad combination.
 
wolverine_173 said:
should i use the dc4 or india stone first?
Click to expand...

I'd start with the India stone first, use some oil on the surface to help keep the stone surface from clogging up. The DC4 is also a good combo, but diamonds are going to be faster and a little less forgiving than the India stone, likewise the ceramic.

The India stone is one of the archetype sharpening stones and a very good choice to learn on - it will challenge your skills for a long time. You can get a perfect EDU edge using nothing more than the stone and some newspaper as a finish strop (wrapped around the same stone). By the time you have a foundation on the India stone, you'll be ready to turn out some good edges on the DC4 as well. The ceramic side of your DC4 will be the highest polish you can get with your current assortment, and likely as fine as you'll ever need to go, but I'd cut my teeth on the India first.

Take your time.
Angle control
burr formation/removal
stone care
 
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