It sure took me a while though. I have started wrapping sandpaper around an unused stone with a few layers of copy paper underneath. It is not idiot proof but, once you know what to look for, it really shortens the time to a decent edge. It has also shrunk my burr size when used with the good instruction on here. Just need to figure out how to best remove the little tiny burr generated. The edge is leaving small cuts in my finger prints during three finger sticky tests.
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I think that I am getting a little bit better.
- Thread starter Squashfan
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:thumbup:
That's good to hear. For removing the burr, you might just use some compound on the paper wrapped around the stone in the same manner. I've found that some white rouge compound works very well, used in this manner (or similar). Just 'strop' as you normally would do. I'm still experimenting with other stick-type compounds used in the same way; the AlOx compounds I've tried all seem to clean up burrs well, though my favorite is still some Ryobi White Rouge (2-5µ) compound.
I'm betting HeavyHanded will also give some good advice here, in using your paper-over-stone to clean up the burrs. :thumbup:
David
I am still in the process of learning. My burrs tend to flip when stropping rather than be abraded off. Though that is on a cardboard strop. I am still not sure how much pressure I should use when removing a burr. . I have some white or grey Ryobi compound in one of my supplies drawers. Going to have to dig it out and try it.
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The compound is what will make the difference. Some steels don't respond well to stropping without compound (or the right compound), with the burr just flipping back & forth forever, as you've noticed. Steels like that need to have the burrs abraded away instead. The combination of a hard-backed paper or linen strop and white rouge has really opened my eyes; I almost don't worry about burrs at all anymore, in using it.
David
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Using your current method you could try "brushing" off the burr. Use real soft edge leading passes across the paper on the burr side, just enough to contact the slack of the paper without really pushing it down into the lower layers. You can also do an accelerated version of dragging the edge across endgrain wood. Are you using a leading, trailing, or scrubbing pass?
For speed sake, I'll sometimes just give a light drag across wood once I feel a burr forming and have flipped it once. Drag across wood, make a pass, drag across wood, make a pass on the opposite side, repeat 10-15 times and check. If clean, lightly finish with a few very light trailing passes and move on to the strop if desired.
Nice work, you're pretty much there.
Martin
David, I misspoke. I have a TAN compound but not white. I will try to pick up a white the next time I am at a store.
Martin, on the sandpaper, I do most of the work with trailing passes. I minimize the burr with light trailing passes then switch to EXTREMELY light edge leading passes. It was almost required on this knife. (An GEC Hayin' Helper in 01. O1 is good stuff. This is my second GEC in O1.) I don't understand what you mean by drag the edge across end grain. The end grain is the grain in a cross sectional cut IIRC. Is that drag a stropping motion or are you cutting into the wood like Murray Carter?
What I have to learn now it how to get a really refined edge. I still have not made a burr free edge off of a stone but the sandpaper is a workaround to that.
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Congrats on your progress!
Someone said in one of thread I read: enough pressure to abrade it but not enough to flip it. (Martin?)
What David and Martin said above are methods to ensure correct abrasive (so you don't press more than needed) and light passes (better too light than flipping) by kissing the sandpaper.
I have to go back and take my own advice :foot:
Someone said in one of thread I read: enough pressure to abrade it but not enough to flip it. (Martin?)
What David and Martin said above are methods to ensure correct abrasive (so you don't press more than needed) and light passes (better too light than flipping) by kissing the sandpaper.
I have to go back and take my own advice :foot:
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Good to hear you're getting the hang of it!
My vote also goes to a light pass through a piece of wood to knock off that burr.
You mentioned the "three finger sticky test", I'm assuming you saw this on a Murray Carter video? I use the same test (among others) to determine sharpness. If you haven't already seen them check out his sharpening videos, he also uses the wood method for knocking the burr off.
-mike
My vote also goes to a light pass through a piece of wood to knock off that burr.
You mentioned the "three finger sticky test", I'm assuming you saw this on a Murray Carter video? I use the same test (among others) to determine sharpness. If you haven't already seen them check out his sharpening videos, he also uses the wood method for knocking the burr off.
-mike
Ya, pressure is killer. I think it does/had a lot to do with my problems and I was working as lightly as I could. But I am still trying to lessen pressure. Ideally, it would great if if were possible to sharpen a knife with no more than a few ounces of pressure during the whole process. And I mean a few ounces or maybe even less.
EDIT: I won't say I am getting the hang of it but I am actually getting slightly better. And believe me, after all the trouble I have had, just a little seems like a long way. I should rewatch some of the youtube videos because the wood method hasn't yet made sense to me.
EDIT: I won't say I am getting the hang of it but I am actually getting slightly better. And believe me, after all the trouble I have had, just a little seems like a long way. I should rewatch some of the youtube videos because the wood method hasn't yet made sense to me.
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You can use end grain or just drag it across he wood at any grain direction. Endgrain seems to work best but I've used either/or. Instructions are for WB but this works on any trailing motion. Also some instructions for using the slack with a leading pass. Both these methods work very well once you get the hang of it.
Something I noticed last night, on sandpaper with copy paper underlayer vs sandpaper without an underlayer. The burr generated was larger on the non backed sandpaper and when I put the backing under the paper edge edge quality increased quite a bit. Also, the burr was much more easily reduced when the paper was backed. I usually use the edge leading passes for finally clean up before stropping. IMO, it has worked well so far but I will try using edge leading first to eliminate the burr before I go to edge trailing.
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Think I've mentioned this once before; my own habit of sharpening (with sandpaper and strops) is to orient the rig almost vertically, and the stroke runs either down or up, which minimizes much of the gravity-induced pressure generated by leaning into a horizontally-oriented rig on a bench. Lateral stresses on the edge really ease off. I've long noticed that burring issues have diminished greatly in doing so.
For example, my latest 'experimental' sandpaper/stropping rigs are utilizing lengths of board at least 12"-24"; I hold the upper end with my 'free' hand, and support the lower end either on top of my knee (while sitting) or to the inside of my knee (with the longer boards, again while sitting). I then 'strop' the blade up/down along the nearly-vertically oriented length of the board. Regulating pressure is much, much easier; especially as the edge becomes more refined, and I'll start using feather-light 'kissing' passes on the sandpaper or strop. I generally keep the pad of my index finger on the side of the blade, positioned as near as possible to the portion of edge being worked. In my mind, I'm basically focusing on the feedback felt through the pad of my fingertip, as if I were just lightly burnishing the skin itself on the sandpaper. It's very easy to keep pressure feather-light, this way, and reducing or eliminating burrs is almost effortless.
David
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That's consistent with what I've seen, and it can be taken even further by utilizing different woods for the 'hard' backing. Similar differences in burr generation and removal can be noticeably altered by choices made of different woods, like balsa or basswood ('softer') versus oak or maple ('harder'). A harder backing will make it somewhat easier to create a burr, but at the same time it'll also be more effective for scrubbing heavier burrs away. The opposite holds true with softer backing; more difficult to create a pressure-induced burr in the first place, and it won't be as aggressive in removing them either. Some steels, like VG-10 from Spyderco, will generate burrs that simply laugh at anything as 'soft' as balsa (or worse, leather) for abrading or otherwise removing burrs. This is where my hard plywood strop with very thin linen and white rouge compound has really excelled; it erases even VG-10's tenacious burrs without hesitation (they don't laugh at me anymore; that'll teach 'em...
).David
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I didn't catch this earlier, have placed my stone on top of a postal scale several times, pressure really should be in the range of a few ounces. When you first start in on a worn edge and know you have some work to do before grinding a new apex, you can go a little heavier, but a pound is about max. When it comes down to working the edge should be in the range of 3-4 ozs, and even less when removing the burr. Working with sandpaper will lessen the 'felt' amount of pressure somewhat and allow for a tad more pressure without heavy burr formation, but avoid this tendency. Use less pressure and more passes. Think "casual", let the abrasive do the work.