I understand the appeal of power hammers now

T

tmickley

Joined
Apr 4, 2001
Messages
1,803
I just tuckered out on forging my first blade from 52100. It started as a 1/2"x1"x5" piece and I have managed to bang it to 1/4"x2"x8" and have a roughly formed blade. No bevels. Just a big down pointed point so it will move up when I put the bevels in and I haven't even begun to fuller in a stick handle. Problem is my arm and hand grip just flat gave out. I think a couple more hours on it tommorrow and I may have something. Gads...
I gotta say that having a red hot piece of metal come loose from the tongs and jump towards your face is exciting though. I believe I have also set the record for having the stock bounce out of the tongs to the floor. Bang, bang, slip, jump. There must be a trick for picking it up off of concrete I don't know. Better tongs, I know. I'm working on that.
I'll have to go work in the shop grinding or finishing off some other knives but that one is done for the day. I now understand the appeal of power hammers. I want one. I'll get one. I just have to move first.
 
tmickley
I agree with you a power hammer would be great, but in the suburbs you just can't do it.
I've found vise grips are good for getting a tight grip on the steel. Use your tongs to pull the steel out of the forge and then lock on with a pair of visegrips. I'm only using a cheap pair as I'm not sure how much abuse they will take, but they have done the job well so far.
Regards
Pinpoint
 
Hi Tmickley, this is DaQo'tah

Im very new to all this knife stuff too.

I have made some art knives (http://daqotahforge.tripod.com) but just today I got my first 52100 steel!

I sent away to Rex Walter to get it. I was given this guys name from a answer posted to me in the Bladesforums from Ed Fowler.

Mr. Walter is the place where Mr Fowler gets his steel now. The steel came to me haveing been forged out of a 6 inch bar of new steel stock by Rex Walter.

My steel came 1/4 inch by 1&1/2 inch by one foot long....just right for my needs...


But Now what do I do first?...do I have to soften the steel in my forge before I start to grind it to a rough shape?

should I draw a pattern on the steel and work with it on my hard stone bench grinders?....should I use my steel cutting bandsaw?...

I dont have a power hammer,,,getting my steel from Mr Walter already forged down from 6 inch bars was my way of getting around the need for a power hammer. But in the Ed Fowler 52100 video , the steel used was worked on the power hammer , so Im confused as to what to do next...

I also am thinking about making a knife out of a old railRoad spike,,,I got such a knife today at a craft sail,,,, this knife is cool,,,but, Im not sure how it was made yet...
 
I got my 52100 from Rex also. Since I was just starting out I had him send me a variety of sizes and shapes for the experience. This was just the piece I picked first to forge. I haven't had enough practice to determine what the best size for my next stock order will be yet. Certainly no bigger than what I'm working on now.
Rex told me the 52100 was ready to go for either forging or stock removal. It's been annealed and normalized.
One of Ed's points about 52100 is that it benefits from reduction at low forging temps. Smaller grain size and all that. One of the selling points for many smiths in knifemaking is manipulation and control of the grain size and orientation during the forging process.
Just doing stock removal on 52100 in that sense seems to miss most of the mystique and benefits of a high carbon knife which is the forging process. Can you make a good high carbon knife using stock removal? Sure can but most use stainless in stock removal and most forgers use carbon steel. Still, there are plenty of forgers using stainless and even more of stock removal makers using high carbon.

The rail road spike will not make a good (using) knife unless it is marked HC or C, meaning it is a high carbon spike. These have been tested by several people and run about .6% carbon. The high carbon spikes are used only at key places on the track and are harder to find. Plain spikes are low carbon and won't harden up enough to hold an edge. That doesn't mean you can't forge it or use it for practice though.

Get a copy of Tim Lively's Unplugged Knife making video for 20 bucks. Do a search here for a post from him and follow it to his web site or I noticed has a few on eBay now. Then make that knife. I hope you get $1200 for yours like he did for his when he made that video.
 
Use the right size box jaw tongs and rein rings and you won't be loosing the blade from the tongs while you beat on it.
 
hi Tmickley this is DaQo'tah

Thanks so much for your last posting!,,,You just saved me a bunch of work!

I thought all day yesterday that I had to fire up my coal forge to get the 52100 steel ready to work, , but if Rex has already done that heavy lifting, then I'm all set to go!

oh,,I have a question , 1st I really am feeling lucky to have found a new knife maker like myself, that just happens to be at work on the same steel at the same time as I am, and Im hopeing you have a Computer camera to post a few photos?...or a website so I can learn more and get ideas as you try things and report on how it went?

2nd, here is what I was thinking, but now Im not sure,,,ok,,,I had wanted to make knives just like Ed Fowler does in his 52100 vidio (I watch it all the time , each time I learn a new trick) and he used 3 inch ball bearings,,,so I got some 1 &1/2 inch bearings too,,,and forged them down to a 3/16 flat,,,well,,,a flat mess if you want to know the truth ,

I was about to give up when I chanced on a link here about forging 52100 and i read that Ed Fowler didnt use the 3inch bearings anymore?..I was confused, then in a link that I started here, Mr Fowler dropped in and confermed that he now gets his 52100 steel from Rex pre-forged down from a 6 inch new rod.

This got me going again, Mr. Fowler helped me contact Rex , and I soon had placed an order,,,I didnt want to have to hit my steel too much so I asked Rex if he could "forge something as thin as 1/4 inch?"..."No problem" he said ...( I could have kissed him)

now, in the Fowler video, it shows Ed forging the 3inch bearing down to 1/4 inch flat, then it's just a matter of stock removeal, just like the way the non-forgeing guys make knives, so,,If I have had Rex forge down from a 6 inch rod my steel, then what I have done is take a short-cut , a short-cut that still gets me to the place in the Fowler Vidio he gets to after useing 3 Power Hammers,,,,,correct?

my steel from Rex, is even better then that video steel, for mine is 1/4 inched now after forged down from a 6 inch rod, the video steel was 1/4 inch after forged down from a 3inch ball

do you see my point of view?...and do you think its correct?

I hope it is anyway,,,well, Im off to the shop to start the work,,,,let me know what step you are on so I get ideas...
(oh by the way, I want to make a hidden tang handle, I have always only made full-tang, but I want to experiment with moose antler,,,what are you planning?)

DaQ

my address is
daqotah@hotmail.com

my website is
http://Daqotahforge.tripod.com
 
Bill: I plan on getting some of those box jaw tongs, that came to me about 30 seconds after I ducked the flying hot steel. :D

Dakota: Rex's steel has been forged down so you should get the benefit of the reduction Ed talks about. Low temp forging and careful heat treating is what's left to you from Ed's treatise on 52100. Ed mentioned somewhere he had gone away from the ball bearings due to lack of consistancy.
You shouldn't have to anneal the steel from Rex to grind it. In fact you can grind most any steel after it's hardened but you will need to watch how hot you get it so it doesn't temper too soft.
I'm planning on a stick tang for this one just so I don't have to make the full tang flat as it needs to be.
 
Hey DaQo'tah...Getting the flat bar just got you started,Now you need to fire up the forge and forge in a point and tang and the bevels.Ed does all this after forging to a bar.But yes you can cut and grind it to shape but why waste the steel? since you have a forge and anvil..
Like Keith Kilby says "5 minutes in the forge is worth 15 minutes on the grinder"
Good luck.

tmickley
No worries your arm will get used to it after a little while.You will be suprised how much you will be able to forge in a short time in a few months from now.It is just like body building,You need to hammer till fatigue then rest and then do it again.But a power hammer will help out allot:D And make forging a lot faster.
Have fun..
Bruce
 
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