I want to cut onions.

T

TooMuchInfo

Joined
Sep 22, 2013
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There is just way too much stuff one has to read through and know. Just when I thought I passed the major confusion phase I now entered another one at 05:00am and so I am throwing together a post, going to sleep and hoping for less confusion tomorrow :confused:

All I want are kitchen knives that cut. Meat, fish, vegetables, fruit and all those things. I figured I could achieve this by sharpening the dull generic knives that are lying around in the kitchen (non-serrated, no fancy folded ice hardened damascus steel knives or whatever, just simple cheap ones). First I thought waterstones would be the way to go, but they need flattening again and too much care. Then came the diamond surfaces. I thought I had finally settled with something, namely

DMT duo sharp X/C
DMT duo sharp F/E
DMT dia sharp medium extra fine 4000
DMT dia sharp EE

when the discussion of "is duo-sharp with the holes really good" and Atoma-series vs DMT and all that stuff kicked in. As i just passed 05:30am lets keep this short, wtf do I buy and is above group a possibility I can just buy and get things over with?

PS: Sorry I dont collect knives I just want to cut my onions, tomatoes and fish without crushing them (even though these miyabi and other gyutohs look real fancy n sh** so far i didnt really think I'd need them in a household amateur-cook kitchen)

Thanks in advance :)
 
A good knife is a good knife, I doubt you buy your folders at Walmart so why would you buy your kitchen cutlery there? A good Japanese knife can be had for less than $100 and so can waterstones to sharpen it... And yes you want to use waterstones.

They are not hard to maintain and will provide the proper edge for your cutlery.
 
From the sounds of it, you are working with "softer" knives. So diamonds are really over kill. Especially the ME and EE stones. If you want diamond stick to x/c f/e stones. And go duo-sharp. Mostly cause the larger size if more kitchen knife friendly and partly because I personally (key word) don't like DMT's QC on their dia-sharp plates. You would also get away just fine if you buy a Norton India combo stone and maybe a hard arkansas stone for finishing. Maybe. Don't over think this. Just take a knife to something abrasive and start sharpening.
 
From what I've been told, soft steels are more likely to tear the diamonds off the plates. I'd go with either japanese waterstones or silicon carbide stones, depending on how much maintenance you want to put up with in regards to flattening the stones and all.

I would go with a Naniwa waterstone kit(100, 1000, and 3000 grit) plus the flattening stone for roughly $75 total.

As for knives, I believe the Richmond Artifex 210mm is roughly $75, is in AEB-L steel(stainless, easy to sharpen, takes a razor edge), and for casual use will cover 99% of all cutting you'll do in the kitchen. I get the attraction for diamonds, but I think it's overkill unless you're using steels with vanadium carbides(S30V, Elmax, M390).
 
Late last night, I think it was (and I think it was here on Blade Forums - it was late and I was very tired), I watched a video review/demonstration of the sharpening of a not so high end (or similar words from the video poster) stainless knife. He was using his new 500 grit Shapton glass water stone. In the end, he thought it might be the perfect answer for these types of knives. He also seemed to think the stone would stay flat for a long time with proper use. He looked to be very good at sharpening, but just with this one stone he was able to get the knife edge to the point where he could easily slice a mushy soft tomato and didn't think one needed to carry it any farther for most endeavors. Hope I got this right and sorry and can't offer a bit more info. Maybe search Blade Forums a bit for the video. Anyway, from what I've been hearing about the Shapton glass water stones, I'll be looking into them. I second the Richmond knives also - if you are in the market. Mike
 
For a simple and down to earth kitchen knife sharpener that will have your knives cutting thru tomatoes and onions, and celery, etc, you don't need a bunch of stones to buy and maintain. For less than you can buy a bunch of diamond stones (I own three of them myself) you can buy a Work Sharp Knife and Tool Sharpener, and keep it in the kitchen and whip it out when your knives need touching up. Two minutes later, your knife is razor sharp with a slightly toothy edge and ready to go. No stones to drag out and mess with. Just a quick down and dirty sharpen job and you are ready to produce your epicurean masterpiece.

I own one of these, and bought it for just this type of thing, and it works great. I keep it under the sink where I can get to it and get back to cooking in a matter of minutes. You can produce a smooth polished edge or a good sharp "toothy" edge, your choice. Not to dish what the others have recommended, as the stones have their place for sharpening knives. But if you are interested in sharpening the knives you now own without buying some expensive knife sets, or even if you buy better knives, this is the way I would (and have) go. We are still talking about kitchen knives, and not expensive folders here where the stones may be a better way to go if you want to spend the time to learn how to use them. Just like the others have posted, this is just my opinion based on my own personal experience. YMMV

Blessings,

Omar
 
This is from a very recent thread (still on page 1).

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1109912-Crystolon-or-India-for-Kitchen-Knives

You'd think nothing could be easier than sharpening cheap cutlery, but it presents some challenges for maintenance, especially if your goal is simple maintenance. The India stone is a good all around choice for this - waterstones maybe a better choice by some standards, but cheap stainless doesn't sharpen reliably on some waterstones - seems to choke them up, even when used with a lot of water. Then you're getting into muddy stones vs hard stones etc when you could just use an India stone with oil and get consistent results. Add a block of black and white compound and you're there. For a strop just wrap some copy paper around the stone and apply compound to that. There is good info re stropping on the sticky at the top of the page, and a quick search will yield plenty more.

Once you have an understanding of freehand sharpening, you can maintain a nice edge on this sort of cutlery using the underside of a mixing bowl or coffee cup (is true). To really control how your edge turns out and how to "tune" your knives for different chores will require a bit more than that, but easy to grasp the basics of simply getting a functionally sharp edge.

Also, the thread linked in my signature features a sharpening widget you might find useful, and if not the videos might be of some help no matter what you decide to go with.
 
One old Wenger chef's knife from a yard sale for 4 dollars, one coffee mug, free if you have one in your cabinet with a nice unglazed ring on the bottom. Some practice which is free. I cut fish and meat, all kinds of veggies for stir fry, with no problem. And I slice up onions for fried onion rings. No problemo.
9898327544_604970a394_c.jpg


If you just want to cut with a sharp knife, you don't have to invest a lot of money.

Carl.
 
A good knife is a good knife, I doubt you buy your folders at Walmart so why would you buy your kitchen cutlery there?
Click to expand...
You'd think nothing could be easier than sharpening cheap cutlery, but it presents some challenges for maintenance, especially if your goal is simple maintenance.
Click to expand...
Point taken, so efficiency wise maybe buying a mid-quality knife might help.

So diamonds are really over kill
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I get the attraction for diamonds, but I think it's overkill[...]
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Point taken aswell, so maybe cheap stones first? But I fear the maintenance of the maintenance tools... Diamonds were so attractive because they simply stay flat and need no attention.

For electric sharpeners and sharpening on coffee mugs, thanks for proposing them but the former is just personally not my thing and the latter seems too difficult and odd for me :)

The set i proposed in the original post would have cost me around (290$ + 60$) * 1.19 ~= 416$ (yes, 19% tax if i import the items and maybe 60$ shipping from the US, remember, i live in germany) which wouldnt have been much of a problem if it did a good job and i could finally be done with the research and get things done. Currently the seemingly best idea is the proposed Richmond Artifex 210mm and some random waterstones. Any other ideas on efficient knife/sharpener combos? MAybe diamonds are good again if i spend money on a good knife aswell? I would guess that something around 75% of the money for sharpeners 25% for knives would be efficient, but i am not sure.
 
get the richmond knife, i assume they come with a ok edge geometry so all you'll need is a couple of stones, like 1k and 6k whatever fits your budget but if the nortons glass do go for that as they are very low maintenance stones.

waiting for them, get a double sided norton india locally (in france you can get those in most store that sells tools etc is that hobby or craft stores ?) and practice on your chefs knife. when you're confident enough switch to your new knife.
 
If I buy the Richmond Artifex 210mm, i will pay 140$ = (75$+35$)(1+0.19+0.085), 75$ plain cost, 35$ shipping, 19% standard tax, 8.5% for knife import. Is it still worth it or should i look for another knife which is produced in germany? I read somewhere that it is still a good idea as it is superior to many german knives of that price class.

edit: As i only want to pay shipping costs for one packet if possible i would order both sharpening material and knife from http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ then. They dont have the cheap naniwa set and flattener from http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Naniwa-C97.aspx sadly, but do have shapton glass stones. What should I get then?
 
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pwet said:
get the richmond knife, i assume they come with a ok edge geometry so all you'll need is a couple of stones, like 1k and 6k whatever fits your budget but if the nortons glass do go for that as they are very low maintenance stones.
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TooMuchInfo said:
If I buy the Richmond Artifex 210mm, i will pay 140$ = (75$+35$)(1+0.19+0.085), 75$ plain cost, 35$ shipping, 19% standard tax, 8.5% for knife import. Is it still worth it or should i look for another knife which is produced in germany? I read somewhere that it is still a good idea as it is superior to many german knives of that price class.
Click to expand...

Actually, from what I hear, the geometry on them is pretty terrible for a kitchen knife. The choil shots I've seen of that Artifex show a knife that is going to need a lot of thinning. The Tojiro DP 210mm Gyuto would likely be a much better buy for ~$5 more and is made of VG-10.

There are a few threads discussing the $75 Artifex gyuto on a dedicated kitchen knife forum (hint hint) outside of Bladeforums and all seem to indicate that they would recommend staying away from that Artifex for a variety of reasons--edge geometry, heat treat, and other (likely extraneous) personal reasons.

I can VM you a link to one of the threads that I mention and you can come to your own decisions.
 
Couple of points worth noting: some generic kitchen knives are great for recycling into something useful, others are so soft that all they'll do is clog up your stones with swarf and frustrate you totally. Those I dispose of. I've been in the kitchen tonight with my kitchen knives, of all things. I had previously bevelled them on a crystolon stone and then cleaned them up with the Washboard strop and 320grit paper. The edges were serviceable then, but I had bought more paper to experiment with:1000 to 2500 grit.I went round all the knives with 600 grit to clean up after the coarser grades and begin refining the edges, which turned out nice in about 5 min. per knife. I then changed to 1000 grit, and applied about a dozen firm strokes and as many very light ones to each knife. Now, I'm working with a mix of blades containing 1095, 5160(I think) and unnamed stainless which have proven themselves worthy of sharpening before tonight. At this point, they will all quietly whisper through push-cutting newsprint and would have little trouble with fruits and veggies. After reprofiling, these 12 knives reached push-cutting sharpness with 90 minutes' work. Frequent tune-up time-more like 2 minutes per knife. Total cost: Washboard strop delivered to your door under $50 with instructions, WB, sandpaper and compound. I'm estimating current price and shipping, so double check that. Cheap to buy and operate, its level of feedback while sharpening makes for a very easy learning curve. Sharpening just your own knives, at most, you'll buy a few sheets of wet-or-dry now and then.
 
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