I wish there was a stainless 0560.

G

gomipile

Joined
Apr 17, 2010
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I will be getting a 0560 eventually, and i think it is an excellently priced knife for what it is.

However, there is a part of me that just loves the feel of a stainless framelock with a simple G10 non locking scale scale that has no fancy milling. The OD-1 and the Cryo have me addicted to the Hinderer stabilizer, and CRKT's Ripples have me addicted to ball bearing flippers.

I'm just saying that if Kershaw made a flipper with a stainless framelock, KVT, lockbar stabilizer, and a simple textured G10 scale with no fancy milling, I'd be all over it. I'll bet they could make it for a similar street price to the ZT0200, even if it still had an Elmax blade.

I think a knife like this would make an excellent companion to the 0560. Keep the 0560 in the pocket, and the stainless frame one in the backpack, in the car, on the nightstand, use it as a letter opener, etc.

I love my Cryo, but I definitely prefer ball bearings to Speed Safe, and G10 scaled knives feel a lot safer to use than slick stainless handles.

So yeah, I'll be getting a 0560, but I'd love something like this to go with it.
 
Big knife I think means big pivot means big bearings and big lockbar and means fairly thick handles. The milling rounds it so it feels smaller and lighter. Full size with flat stainless and G10 I think would be unbalanced to the lock side or if using a pretty thick liner would be ridiculously heavy. Compare the weight of a full size stainless of something like the Storm II to the 0560. I don't mean to put down your idea. I just don't see how you could do it and not have it be very heavy. I'm no knife designer though.
 
Check out the Inron MY803 if you want something to hold you over till you buy a 0560. It's about the same size, a stainless framelock with a flat g10 scale and most importantly it flips great (when properly adjusted and lubed) due to it's heavy detent (very similar to the 0560). It was one of my favorite fondling knives before i wore down the detent. That said, you do get what you pay for.
 
The Lee Williams-designed Kershaw OD-1 is 3 out of 4, albeit with a different "flipper" style of opening. Much smaller than the ZT 560 though.
 
oregonknifenerd said:
Big knife I think means big pivot means big bearings and big lockbar and means fairly thick handles. The milling rounds it so it feels smaller and lighter. Full size with flat stainless and G10 I think would be unbalanced to the lock side or if using a pretty thick liner would be ridiculously heavy. Compare the weight of a full size stainless of something like the Storm II to the 0560. I don't mean to put down your idea. I just don't see how you could do it and not have it be very heavy. I'm no knife designer though.
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The bearing races have to be larger in diameter but not necessarily in thickness to accomodate a larger pivot.
 
I agree increased depth isn't inherent in a larger pivot but I don't know if lots of little bearings to fill that diameter works as well as a dozen larger bearings and the increased depth that requires. If not a technical issue it could just be a parts sourcing issue. I've looked everywhere unsuccesfully to find sealed bearings in the same dimensions as the 0560s to see how a sealed versus nylon captured bearings work and feel. If they remain smooth without maintenance and keep pocket lint out. I suspect they don't break in the same way and would require precise tolerances and leave little adjustment in the pivot tightness but you'd have nearly the same feel out of the box for every knife if the detent and everything else had super precision. That would be a major downside as it would increase costs and take away the ability to handle multiple knives to find one with the detent strength and smoothness you prefer. Just something I wanted to play with for my own knowledge and to better understand the engineering and design that goes in to a knife.
 
It's intersting that you guys bring this up - I have been thinking about this basic idea for some time - the stainless framelock part.

I am making NO promises here, but I have always wondered if people would buy a ZT knife with a nice, cleanly machined stainless framelock. I think there is a belief that stainless framelocks belong on sub $100 knives. But look at an 0350 - the MSRP is $175. I'm not even sure if it makes sense for us, but would people pay $200 for a cool knife wit ha stainless framelock?

The other side of this is that titanium has a magical sort of cachet - it's just really cool, and always seems to add value.

I will be curious to see how people respond to this topic.
 
jimmer_5 said:
It's intersting that you guys bring this up - I have been thinking about this basic idea for some time - the stainless framelock part.

I am making NO promises here, but I have always wondered if people would buy a ZT knife with a nice, cleanly machined stainless framelock. I think there is a belief that stainless framelocks belong on sub $100 knives. But look at an 0350 - the MSRP is $175. I'm not even sure if it makes sense for us, but would people pay $200 for a cool knife wit ha stainless framelock?

The other side of this is that titanium has a magical sort of cachet - it's just really cool, and always seems to add value.

I will be curious to see how people respond to this topic.
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I know I'd pay $100 street at least for a stainless framelock flipper if you put an Elmax or similar blade on it, it had a stabilizer, and had a G10 or similar non locking scale. I might be willing to go $150 street if it had KVT.

Understand that I want smooth G10 like the Skyline, not fancy milled G10, and a smooth stainless side. I don't know what all the fancy milling on the ZT knives costs y'all, so i have no idea if making it simpler like that would affect the bottom line noticeably.

I honestly do prefer stainless to titanium for actual use, in the same way that I prefer steel to aluminum and titanium on pistol frames. I prefer shooting steel frame pistols, but the pistols I carry daily have aluminum alloy frames because if it's light enough, I won't make excuses not to carry it.

The stainless framelock I'm imagining would be great for around the house, in the car, compulsively flipping, etc.

Though, I'd love it if you made a slim Kershaw like the OD-1 but with a regular flipper instead of the OD mechanism as well.
 
jimmer_5 said:
It's intersting that you guys bring this up - I have been thinking about this basic idea for some time - the stainless framelock part.

I am making NO promises here, but I have always wondered if people would buy a ZT knife with a nice, cleanly machined stainless framelock. I think there is a belief that stainless framelocks belong on sub $100 knives. But look at an 0350 - the MSRP is $175. I'm not even sure if it makes sense for us, but would people pay $200 for a cool knife wit ha stainless framelock?

The other side of this is that titanium has a magical sort of cachet - it's just really cool, and always seems to add value.

I will be curious to see how people respond to this topic.
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I think you make a good point. Titanium does seem to have a certain cachet (despite the fact that it apparently wears faster than a steel on steel lock). I think you could easily sell something like the cryo but with a better blade steel and charge well over $100 for it though.
 
I definitely would. Especially if you stonewash the whole thing. I'd love a stainless framed knife that has been etched dark and stonewashed with a light unetched stonewashed blade. If you can mill pockets to keep the strength without all of the weight and make it work then I think people would be all over it. Removable G10 overlays perhaps over top for but designed to be usable either with or without. Grip when you need it, doesn't eat up the edge of your pocket if you don't.
 
oregonknifenerd said:
I definitely would. Especially if you stonewash the whole thing. I'd love a stainless framed knife that has been etched dark and stonewashed with a light unetched stonewashed blade. If you can mill pockets to keep the strength without all of the weight and make it work then I think people would be all over it. Removable G10 overlays perhaps over top for but designed to be usable either with or without. Grip when you need it, doesn't eat up the edge of your pocket if you don't.
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I prefer a full G10 non locking scale. The scale needs to be a little thicker, but G10 is plenty strong by itself, and lighter than G10 + a liner or G10 + a full stainless scale as you are suggesting. On a knife like we are discussing, a bushing would be needed around the pivot, but the scale can be all G10 other than that.
 
Would be interesting. I would likely purchase one however I do wish the 0560 was a tad smaller maybe smaller than the 0550 for easier carry. Heavy duty knife in a compact package?
 
If a titanium framelock has good geometry and is carbidized or carburized, it shouldn't experience any perceptible wear after it's broken in. The only real advantage to a stainless lock is price.
 
I'd definitely be interested if it meant the handle is thinner. The current iteration is definitely not overly thick, but thin is nice in the pocket.
 
Dan57 said:
If a titanium framelock has good geometry and is carbidized or carburized, it shouldn't experience any perceptible wear after it's broken in. The only real advantage to a stainless lock is price.
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Mostly irrelevant since only a few production knives use that tech.

Dan57 said:
If a titanium framelock has good geometry and is carbidized or carburized, it shouldn't experience any perceptible wear after it's broken in. The only real advantage to a stainless lock is price.
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True, and i think the best example of this is the 0550, mine hasn't moved more than a millimeter since it first settled in.
 
Please, for the love of God, make a framelock 0350. Stainless, titanium, aluminum, anything will do.
 
Dan57 said:
If a titanium framelock has good geometry and is carbidized or carburized, it shouldn't experience any perceptible wear after it's broken in. The only real advantage to a stainless lock is price.
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Steel is also stronger that Ti...
 
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