I would like the hobby of blade smithing!

Judcargile

Judcargile

Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Messages
145
I have been working on getting the main tools that I need to design and craft blades in my free time. I am waiting on the motor and VFD for the 2x72. The attachments will cost as much as the frame, if you don't start from scratch.

I will consider the tooling to be income producing property, as I would like to retire in 15 or so years and might be a good smith by then.

So, I will be around listening and watching you guys and asking lots of questions.

I got Dr. Thomas's book before I bought the grinder. I am just enough to be a PITA right now! ;)

God bless you all!
 
Welcome to BladeForums. You've come to the right place of you have questions. There is tons of info kicking around here. If you can't find an answer with a quick search, don't hesitate to ask.
 
It seems that the grinder project is going in the proper direction and in time, it should produce very good results.

I do not see the need for doing heat treating in house unless this gets and if this gets busy. I most likely will not need an oven for years.

I think a hydraulic press and hammer is too much fun to miss out on and I spend hundreds of $$$ a month, buying factory knives. I am hesitating on 5K for a delivered unit; But, if I could source the structural steel locally, I would be in progress of that build as well!
I am looking at a 5hp, 220v, 22 /11gpm pump and around a 5" bore range and not decided on stroke.
I have scouts in the scrap yards, so, we shall see.
 
Along with the blacksmith association, find a local maker for a friendly lesson. I've helped 4 people, so far, make their first knives and I loved it.

Knife making can get kinda lonely, so a visit from an enthusiastic maker can be a win-win!

BTW: I started knife making about 20 years ago. I'm retired now and it's my main 'hobby'. So, I can confirm you've made a good choice.

I'm still using the same KMG grinder with a treadmill motor I started with.
 
Jud, you mention Prattville, is that Prattville, AL?

You mention building your press - good idea, Since we're not allowed to post helpful links on this forum, you might do a google search for "push / pull for a hydraulic cylinder calculation" and that should turn up a page calculating tonnage of the press. That 5" cylinder will give around a 25 ton press. Plenty for really serious high volume work. a 4" cylinder is a bit less expensive ($130 range) and will hit 16 to 18 tons depending on pressure.
 
Ken H> said:
Jud, you mention Prattville, is that Prattville, AL?

You mention building your press - good idea, Since we're not allowed to post helpful links on this forum, you might do a google search for "push / pull for a hydraulic cylinder calculation" and that should turn up a page calculating tonnage of the press. That 5" cylinder will give around a 25 ton press. Plenty for really serious high volume work. a 4" cylinder is a bit less expensive ($130 range) and will hit 16 to 18 tons depending on pressure.
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Yes Sir,
Prattville, AL.
Pratt Park and The Dungeon need forges in them and I came home after 35 years.

I am willing to cry once and get the bigger end on the press. I know that I want single phase and 20 amp circuits are within reach. 5hp is about where it needs to live, based on the builds that I have

Structural steel is my nemesis. The aquiring of reclaimed steel is difficult as working day shift, it is very hard for me to line up transport, miss work and hope we flush out usable pieces. New steel easily justifies a delivered machine. One day of scrapping could change the game.....or screw me out of a days wages.
 
I'll give you a good piece of advice - Just get the Coal Iron press. It is turnkey product, has user support, and will work the right way. None of those are a guarantee with home-built presses. Welding up and building a good press yourself takes a good size machine shop and considerable skill.
 
Hey, you're just "up the road" from me. As shown in my profile I'm in Baldwin county, just across the bay from Mobile, AL.

If you take a look at Coal Iron's 25 ton press ($7,000 + shipping) it's a "C" style which is good, but I'm not sure it's that big a deal. The only advantage (that I've seen mentioned) of C style is being able to work from the side as well as front. This allows a drawing die to be used from the side to widen a billet as well as draw it out when working from front. With the "H" style press I make a second drawing die, but turn the die 90° so it becomes a widening die. Dies are easy to make and not that expensive to make, and with quick change die holders no problem to change while hot.

You do want to be sure that 5 hp motor is a 3600 rpm to get the full flow from the pump.

"IF" you're a metal worker, or have access to somebody who's a metal worker a press isn't that hard to build, and it be safe. If you're not a decent welder, then by all means I'd think buying a ready made press would be the way to go. I did order a "ready to go", the "12 ton" press from Coal Iron, only to find it's NOT a 12 ton, but a 9 ton, "IF" the press is adjusted to the spec'd 2550 psi. My press did work amazing well, considering it was only an 8 ton press. I have since changed to a 4" cylinder so am able to get the full 12 ton with only 1950 psi.

Ken H>
 
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Ken H> said:
Hey, you're just "up the road" from me. As shown in my profile I'm in Baldwin county, just across the bay from Mobile, AL.

If you take a look at Coal Iron's 25 ton press ($7,000 + shipping) it's a "C" style which is good, but I'm not sure it's that big a deal. The only advantage (that I've seen mentioned) of C style is being able to work from the side as well as front. This allows a drawing die to be used from the side to widen a billet as well as draw it out when working from front. With the "H" style press I make a second drawing die, but turn the die 90° so it becomes a widening die. Dies are easy to make and not that expensive to make, and with quick change die holders no problem to change while hot.

You do want to be sure that 5 hp motor is a 3600 rpm to get the full flow from the pump.

"IF" you're a metal worker, or have access to somebody who's a metal worker a press isn't that hard to build, and it be safe. If you're not a decent welder, then by all means I'd think buying a ready made press would be the way to go. I did order a "ready to go", the "12 ton" press from Coal Iron, only to find it's NOT a 12 ton, but a 9 ton, "IF" the press is adjusted to the spec'd 2550 psi. My press did work amazing well, considering it was only an 8 ton press. I have since changed to a 4" cylinder so am able to get the full 12 ton with only 1950 psi.

Ken H>
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That is sound advice and thank you, Ken.
For a 25 ton press; Which structures best resist the force and is 3/8 thick enough?
 
3/8 isn't even half the thickness needed for a 25 ton press. H-frame is stronger, buy a properly built C-frame will be OK.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
3/8 isn't even half the thickness needed for a 25 ton press. H-frame is stronger, buy a properly built C-frame will be OK.
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The most recommended press uses 1/2" as far as I kn.....think.
I have a partner who is a crackerjack welder and probably one of the best "mechanics" that I know. I am IBEW LU#443 2000. We just always take two things that we do know to figure out the part we don't! ;)
 
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If planning on building a press, I would recommend you getting Batson's book, Build Your Own Hydraulic Press.

There have been many press building threads in Shop talk. You can find them with the Custom Search Engine.
 
Judcargile said:
The most recommended press uses 1/2" as far as I kn.....think.
I have a partner who is a crackerjack welder and probably one of the best "mechanics" that I know. I am IBEW LU#443 2000. We just always take two things that we do know to figure out the part we don't! ;)
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On mine 50 ton press frame is made from 1/2" and engineers around me tell me that I overbuild it .
 
It's not just the thickness of the metal, but also the shape, angle, I-beam, etc. Also the design of press, "C" or "H" design. I'd think the "C" design would take a LOTS more metal due to flex compared to the "H" design.
 
Ken H> said:
It's not just the thickness of the metal, but also the shape, angle, I-beam, etc. Also the design of press, "C" or "H" design. I'd think the "C" design would take a LOTS more metal due to flex compared to the "H" design.
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I am favoring the an H frame and I am liking C channel 10 inches or so sandwiching plate.
 
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