Idea for a possible 5th Busse Group?

A

Avenged Sorrow

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Oct 9, 2013
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I was thinking what if for the budget minded ( I know that's scrapyard's domain) that still wants the sexy look of a busse knife but just can't afford it. What if there was a run of Busse knives but made in SR101 or SR77? I know some people prefer SR101 , and a SR101 TGLB would be pretty damned sexy. I don't know if that would be considered blasphemous or not since Busses are exclusively Infi, but I think it would be a cool idea. I kind of had an idea for the group name if it was to become one , "The Lab" and have like a crazy doctor or something as the logo since it's kind of Crazy to make Sr101 and SR77 Busse blades.
 
Busses are not exclusively INFI. He started out with tool steels like A2. The original Tali-whacker was SR101. The original Basic line was M-INFI. He learned about alloy steels and heat/cryo treatment and developed what he and we call INFI. He uses, and we buy, INFI almost exclusively because of its amazing properties. Not the absolute best at any one property, (hardness, toughness, wear-resistance, edge sharpness retention, ease of sharpening, etc.), but perhaps the best compromise to give you the finest available hard/extreme-use edged tool/weapon for their intended purpose(s).
What you suggest already exists in the Busse Family group. The alternatives are generally not available at the same time but, for an example, the Rodent Rucki that I just got. It is very similar to the Busse Ruck Kensei released a few years back. SR101 instead of INFI and a different transition profile from ricasso to handle without, of course, the Talon Hole exclusive to the Busse Combat blades but, for almost all intents and purposes, the same blade. Jerry does that. He will eventually, (search for the words "two weeks")) re-release an older design but it will never be identical to the original and can be released by a Busse Family member company. They are literally family. Jerry is Busse Combat, his wife Jennifer is Swamp Rat and his brother Dan is Scrapyard. The mad scientist is Jerry, ably assisted by his growing retinue of assistants/"minions".
Look around. Search the forums. Read the stickies at the top. Check out the "Bad Mojo" and "Busse Collector" sites. Come for the knives, stay for the insanity. Come to the dark side, we have INFI. (And SR101, S77, etc.)
Pete
 
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I understand the want for better prices, that just Never Really equates to a better product. For me, that is like buying the new mustang in 4 cylinder because it looks like the GT, kind of. Well that "kind of" will either work for you or not. If you have no need for the superman properties of infi then, swamp rat or scrap yard should be good enough. For me, the name Busse is unconditional quality, I would say the same of any ratmandu I've ever owned, but it's not a Busse. Close to is not, the same as. I have had this discussion several times in the last 3 weeks. I use a car analogy. Scrap yards are corvettes, swamp rats are Porsche, Busse are Lamborghinis. If they made a Lambo to look like a Porsche or Vette but it still has the Lambo W12 under it great, but on the other hand, I don't want a Lamborghini with a ls6 motor or a turbo 6 cylinder. It doesn't matter to me that nobody would know, I would know and my ass Could tell the difference, and nothing exceeds like excess....

Just an opinion, I'm excited about the future and combat grade sr-101, just not enough to wish the infi out of any design I own.
 
5th group? What is the 4th?
Agreed not needed with Swamp Rat and Scrap Yard around.
Unless it was the folder group!
 
I see,I kind of think of the Custom Shop same as Busse.
 
breavis5694 said:
I understand the want for better prices, that just Never Really equates to a better product. For me, that is like buying the new mustang in 4 cylinder because it looks like the GT, kind of. Well that "kind of" will either work for you or not. If you have no need for the superman properties of infi then, swamp rat or scrap yard should be good enough. For me, the name Busse is unconditional quality, I would say the same of any ratmandu I've ever owned, but it's not a Busse. Close to is not, the same as. I have had this discussion several times in the last 3 weeks. I use a car analogy. Scrap yards are corvettes, swamp rats are Porsche, Busse are Lamborghinis. If they made a Lambo to look like a Porsche or Vette but it still has the Lambo W12 under it great, but on the other hand, I don't want a Lamborghini with a ls6 motor or a turbo 6 cylinder. It doesn't matter to me that nobody would know, I would know and my ass Could tell the difference, and nothing exceeds like excess....

Just an opinion, I'm excited about the future and combat grade sr-101, just not enough to wish the infi out of any design I own.
Click to expand...

Agreed! 99 out of 100 times I settle for something less I am left wanting more. In my experience it always cost more to get the more afterwards as well.
 
Jerry's business model is: Get it now, whatever it is, from us for what we charge or from someone else, someday, for (perhaps much) more. I really want a BIG Ruck or AK with black canvas slabs but, AFAIK, the blanks are not even available for any price. Guess that you have to get yourself (myself) to one of the shows and be early, fast and lucky enough to snag the closest thing to your dream blade available. Or wait. And wait. 2 weeks. 2 more weeks. While I endure the race between either exact model someday becoming available and hell freezing over, I got a Rucki to play with. Currently available at or below release price (2 pluses) and, while SR101 and not INFI, my research of this forum indicates that many, including Jerry himself, think quite highly of the alloy, especially after Jerry's heat/cryo treatment. Just lacks the strong rust resistance of INFI. He refers to it as "INFI's cranky little sister" and promises "Extreme performance at a non-extreme price". (INFI vs. SR101 might be closer to V8 vs. turbo V6, rather than 8 vs. 4.) Jerry and crew deliver on his promises. Exceptional performance, quality and customer service. Oh, and he makes really cool toys too. That's why I'm here.
Pete
 
Ok so, if v8s don't rust and turbo v6s do then, rust is ok as long as you save the difference in cost. I can wrap my head around that. In the same breath, when your turbo(rolling with your analogy) burns the bearings up and needs maintenance(dulls faster, not so rust preventative) and the v8(not requiring tricks or boost to be king shit) doesn't. How do you feel spending money then?

I have owned both turbo v6s and built v8s, in both actual cars and knives. The all motor engine cries less, breaks less, and has power on tap when you need it. The turbo does what it can, when it can, nothing more.

Swamp rats are great, but just before I start to use any of my ratmandus, I stop and think, is this the best tool I own for this job. No, Then I go back get my swatmandu and it's on. Long and short of it is I don't open cans with spoons or hammer nails with golf clubs. Yes you can do those things but as long as you have the actual hammer or can opener, why improvise.
 
(Yours was the automotive analogy, but lets keep playing.)
You could care for the turbo 6 and prevent rust. Not everyone needs or even wants a V8. Continuing:selecting, using and damaging an inadequate tool simply shows poor judgement as does demanding too much from what you do have. Abusing anything causes it to degrade at an accelerated rate if not destroying it outright. That can be done to the V8 as well as the 6, your Swatmandu as well as your Rats. Trying to follow your "Long and short" analogy and I for one, don't see it. A slightly less capable knife is still a knife, not something used as a tool that one would only choose out of desperation or for lack of any other available object. From your take, I don't wear flower pots for shoes and I don't drive railroad spikes with watermelons. Ummmm, duh. To repeat: A slightly less capable knife (SR101 might actually have a slight advantage over INFI on edge retention depending on type of use) is still a knife, not a donut.
You choose to use what you consider the best that you have. Most reasonable. But, you can't do anything with your Swatmandu that you can't also do with your Ratmandu. You just prefer the Swat.
 
I think the original question that started all of this was cheaper knives that look like better knives or Busse designs with less than stellar metal.

I make enough money that I don't have to sacrifice quality for cost. If you do then, yes you still get a knife with a great warranty, it's just A LITTLE more likely that you will have to use it( warranty). The least effective knife you own is the one at the shop getting fixed or repaired.

I don't question what my Busses can do, they have never let me down, the swamp rats haven't let me down either, but it is because I don't give them the chance. That is my choice not to use them, could I? yes, but why change what works. Swamp rat makes beautiful knives, but I think this thread would have went longer if someone asked for swamp rat designs in infi. Not the reverse. Though we have some swamp rat knives in INFI, already.

We will try one more, long and short. You love your opinion and I love mine. I don't think that the people who can't afford a Busse should bitch about pricing. We are all capable of saving money to get the better product, or settling for the lesser product. The only thing worse is somebody who can afford it, still crying about it.

I totally agree with the 5th group being a folder group though. The first could be the swamp rat folder in INFI.

Sorry if feathers are ruffled. No harm intended
 
In my case, its not a matter of affordability (I am down from a high of 66 Busse Combat blades to a mere 38.), but availability. The precise model with the material and FINISH that I desire does not yet exist, AFAIK. Even whatever blanks that exist or are made are apparently dedicated solely to blades made for the Knife shows that Busse attends and not through the Custom Shop. My options appear to be do without, go to a blade show and take my chances [(very long odds against and impractical for me to attend in the first place) + If you think things go quickly at Ganzas, I understand that the "trough" at a show is akin to piranhas stripping a cow carcass in minutes], or get a very nearly identical model and make do so that I do have my toy to play with while I ponder my options. Precisely what I want? No. The absolute best IMHO? No. Until I do get what I want, I'm willing to settle for 95+%. As a saying goes "All things come to he who waits." My questions are: How long is the wait? and; What am I going to do while waiting?

Our little side discussion does seem to have hijacked the OPs thread. Jerry's business model seems to include finish and handle options but preclude offering blade steel options during a particular release. He sells more knives in INFI because a less expensive blade material is not made available at the same time. His economy model is the CG with you choice of blade coatings and, currently, black or tan micarta or black paper slabs. You can upgrade from there with DCBB or satin finish and/or G-10 slabs but there is no "Also offered in SR101, S77, etc." at a lower price. Those come, if they come at all, (much) later. Years after the AK and Ruck Kensei (a very limited release military over-run), both INFI, were released and discontinued, SwampRat and Scrapyard offered their versions in SR101 and S77 respectively. Jerry's trying something a bit different this time. Again, years after the ASH 1 and its variations, all in INFI, he's set to offer the same design in SR101 at Busse Combat instead of handing it off to SwampRat or Scrapyard. Cool! I've had 5 ASH 1s & still have 2. The Rucki is my first Busse Family blade in SR101 and if I like that alloy well enough, I might get myself an ASH or three in SR101 as well.

As far as fussing about cost, I did at first as well but once I got into this nonsense and saw what its all about, decided it was/is worth it. It is human nature to seek a bargain. It can be viewed as a form of efficiency if you don't spend too much time looking for that bargain. Time can equal money. I myself will buy the less expensive offering of the same blade on the exchange, not because I can't afford it but can, with the difference, get something else or save that bit of disposable income/pin money.

Lastly, reasonable people can disagree and discuss their differences and even argue about them. An argument is a group of statements, assertions and (hopefully) facts that one puts forth in support of a point of view with the idea of perhaps persuading some of those who might disagree that the arguer is not completely full of prune juice. Perhaps even has a bit of a valid point or two. It need not and IMHO should not express any form of hostility for that would more appropriately be labeled a fight or an attempt to start one.

My apologies if I appeared to take offense as I'm sure none was intended. It was late, I couldn't sleep and while I'm lucky enough to be getting older, I'm also getting crankier along with some of the other gifts of "old age". I do sometimes find myself putting a bit of an edge on my discussions but I do try not to imply any hostility and I do hope that none was/is inferred.

A most pleasant Memorial Day to one and all and I hope that all will spend at least a moment reflecting on our freedoms and those who have served and paid to win and protect it.

Pete
 
Agreed, your points are totally valid, as well as the older/grumpier, I'm right there with you. I didn't feel hostility, just wanted it to be clear that it was not my intent either.


Today is about all service men and women, Thank you for your service. Sorry, to Jack the thread
 
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