Idea: San Mai 440-1095-440?

M

Michael Bennett

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Mar 2, 1999
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I've been thinking - usually dangerous for me - about possible Stainless - HC - Stainless San Mai combinations. The gist of my idea is that the outside layers would be somewhat rust resistant, while the inner layer would be the cutting edge and be some HC steel such as O-1, A2 or something like that.

What do you think? What other combinations of stainless would work together with respect to sticking together in a weld and functioning in the manner I describe?

Mike
 
I think you'd run into problems creating a galvanic cell at the juncture(that would not be prudent). The chromium content in the the outer layers would speed rust formation on the middle layer, and wouldn't make a very useful knife, although cool.

What might work would be one of the following:
420 outside and 420V inside(both stainless, but one hard and one springy)
S7(increadibly low carbon, it is used in hammer heads) outside and A2(or 52100 or whatever) inside. Although both non-stainelss, should provide the combination of strength and edge you want.
Aaron

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aaronm@cs.brandeis.edu
I like my women like I like my knives: strong, sharp, well-formed and pattern-welded!
 
I have seen a san mai forged by Meyer I beleive, he sells it in barstock form..

The alloys he uses is 303 stainless on the outsides, which it non heat treatable and stays soft and non corroding..

With a thin 1/16th layer of 52-100 bearing steel in the center, remember after your layers are forged it still has to be heat treated, so if both of your materials have the same heat treating properties, why use two instead of one??

Dont you want a hard edge with flexible shock absorbing sides to make the best of the material arrangement??

How bout using 303 and bg42 for a stainless version and using maybe pure iron and 52100 or 1095 for a true non stainless san mai..

Just some thoughts ..

Alan..
 
Good commentary, guys. What I was thinking about was to have the corrosion-resistance of stainless as a "shell" with the cutting/edge holding HC steel where it counts.

I'd stay away from SS-SS-SS san mai or HC-HC-HC san mai, because in each case there's something missing. I guess I'm just thinking about trying to cheat Mother Nature.

Mike
 
The problem would be the heat-treatment. I don't think combining an air-hardening steel with 1095 is going to work.

Another problem is the outer layers of a san mai are supposed to provide strength and toughness, which the stainless steels are not noted for. You could make the inner layer thick and use that for strength -- use a differential temper so you could get a strong blade with a hard edge -- use thin outer layers of a non-heat-treatable stainless for corrosion resistance -- or better yet, pure chromium ... I've just reinvented Mad Dog knives.
smile.gif


I dunno. As far as I know all stainless steels have the weak grain boundary problem, but some are reasonably tough anyway if tempered soft. The problem of heat treating remains, though. Maybe an air-hardening tool steel for the center layer instead of 1095. How about a thin high speed steel center with thick outer layers of stainless, say something from the 420 series? I think that'd work. 420 is very corrosion resistant and pretty tough, and the high speed steels are great for edge holding. Heat treatment shouldn't be a problem; just let it cool in air. Can 420 be welded to high speed steel? If so I think we're onto something.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Why not just use cpm 420v or 440v (great cutting steels and figure out how to get a spring back and a hard edge . This can be done with ease. Then you will have a one piece blade that is strong and will serve your purpose.

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