Identity Badge Worn Under Skin

Buzzbait

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2001
Messages
6,810
This is some very scary stuff!!! Can you say "BIG BROTHER"!!!!

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Identity Badge Worn Under Skin Approved for Use in Health Care

The Food and Drug Administration has cleared the way for a Florida company to market implantable chips that would provide easy access to individual medical records.

The approval, which the company announced yesterday, is expected to bring to public attention a simmering debate over a technology that has evoked Orwellian overtones for privacy advocates and fueled fears of widespread tracking of people with implanted radio frequency tags, even though that ability does not yet exist.

Applied Digital Solutions, based in Delray Beach, Fla., said that its devices, which it calls VeriChips, could save lives and limit injuries from errors in medical treatment. And it expressed hope that such medical uses would accelerate the acceptance of under-the-skin ID chips as security and access-control devices.

Scott R. Silverman, chairman and chief executive of Applied Digital, said the F.D.A.'s approval should help the company overcome "the creepy factor" of implanted tags and the suspicion it has stirred.

"We believe there are far fewer people resisting this today," Mr. Silverman said. But it is far from clear whether implanted identification tags can overcome opposition from those who fear new levels of personal surveillance and from some fundamentalist religious groups who contend that the tags may be the "mark of the beast" referred to in the Book of Revelation.

In Applied Digital's vision, patients implanted with the chips could receive more effective care because doctors, other emergency-room personnel and ambulance crews equipped with Applied's handheld radio scanners would be able to read a unique 16-digit number on the chip.

The chip does not contain any records, but with the number, the care provider would be able to retrieve medical information about blood type, drug histories and other critical data stored in computers. The records could be easily updated.
Tiny radio frequency identification, or RFID, tags similar to VeriChip have been embedded in livestock and pets in the millions in recent years as a more secure form of identification than external tags. But no device maker has yet been able to create a market for human implantable tags like VeriChip, which are the size of a grain of rice and are inserted under the skin of the arm or hand with a syringe.

Applied Digital's distributors overseas have achieved some highly publicized, if limited successes. This summer, Rafael Macedo de la Concha, Mexico's attorney general, announced that he and scores of his subordinates had received implanted chips that control access to a secure room and documents considered vital in Mexico's struggle with drug cartels.

Also, Solusat, the sole distributor of VeriChip in Mexico, says about 1,000 people have received the chip implants to link to their medical records. "You can have all the benefits of radio identification," a Solusat executive, Antonio Aceves, said, "but now it is inside your body."

In March, the Baja Beach Club in Barcelona began offering VeriChips to regular patrons who wanted to dispense with traditional identification and credit cards. About 50 "V.I.P.'s" have received the chip so far, according to a spokesman, which allows them to link their identities to a payment system. The program has been expanded to a club in Rotterdam also owned by Baja, and about 35 people there have signed up for the implants, the company said.

VeriChip announced last week that it had signed a distribution agreement with a British company, Surge IT Solutions, which it said intended to use the technology to control access to government facilities. And Antonia Giorgio Antonucci, an Italian doctor, is leading a study using VeriChip at the National Institute for Infectious Diseases Lazzaro Spallanzani in Rome.
"We want to see if the doctors think the device is practical or not," Dr. Antonucci said.

Applied Digital has been free to sell VeriChip in the United States for nonmedical applications, but lack of acceptance of the technology made F.D.A. approval for medical uses a high priority.

"I've believed all along that the medical application was the best, followed by security and financial applications," Mr. Silverman said.

Still, the science-fiction specter of a nation of drones tagged with sub-dermal bar codes may be a difficult image for the company to overcome in selling its technology.

Online conspiracy theorists, for example, often attach abilities to the technology that do not exist, like the ability to track individuals via satellite.

But real privacy concerns have emerged. "At the point you place the chip beneath the skin, you're saying you will not have the ability to remove the ID tracking device," said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a public interest advocacy group in Washington. "I think, increasingly, if this takes off - and it's still not clear that it will - the real social debate begins around prisoners and parolees, and perhaps even visitors to the U.S. That's where the interest in being able to identify and track people is."

Indeed, the debate over civil liberties and privacy has made discussing any practical benefits of a technology like VeriChip harder.

"The fact that we're engaged in such a deep, fundamental privacy debate really does complicate the prospect for this kind of technology," said Clyde Wayne Crews Jr., director of technology studies at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a regulatory research group in Washington. "We haven't even sorted out the appropriateness of a RFID tag that goes on a pallet of tomatoes," Mr. Crews said, "much less one that can go under a person's skin."

Applied Digital has tried to counter such concerns by arguing that the implantation of chips is voluntary and the only records linked to a VeriChip will be those authorized by the person with the chip.

But critics say that if the technology gains a foothold, employers, government authorities and others with power over individuals could dictate how it is used. For instance, if chips were to replace dog tags as military identification, the decision would not be up to the discretion of individual soldiers.

The evolution of radio identification technology also concerns some critics. Passive tags like VeriChip do not broadcast radio waves and cannot now be used to track a person's movements. And current scanners cannot read the passive chip from more than a few feet away. But design advances or the addition of a separate power source for the chip could expand those ranges and make tracking possible.

Mr. Silverman has said that the current chip could help managers of high-security installations like nuclear power plants locate people in the building because scanners in doorways should be able to track who enters and leaves a room.

Applied Digital has VeriChip distribution agreements with companies in several states, but those have been largely dormant. It said it hoped to find big medical distribution companies to market the chip to doctors' offices, specialty clinics and emergency rooms.

Dr. Richard Seeley, Applied Digital's medical adviser, said the company would concentrate on winning acceptance of the chip among patients with complex problems like diabetes, which require them to see many doctors, and those with disorders like Alzheimer's disease.

Dr. Seeley said the company was also talking to large orthopedics companies to demonstrate the value of linking the chip to medical devices like hip and knee implants.

Mr. Silverman said that surveys had shown that 14 percent to 22 percent of people would consider having the implant, but more than 80 percent of those surveyed said they would consider having the implant if the question was framed to show a medical benefit from the chip.

Applied Digital, which has been losing money for years, cautioned yesterday that it did not expect substantial revenue or profit from VeriChip anytime soon. But investors were optimistic enough about the F.D.A. news to send the company's shares up 68 percent, to close at $3.57 yesterday. Shares of Digital Angel, a subsidiary of Applied Digital that makes animal tags and manufactures the VeriChip, rose nearly 29 percent, to $3.49.
 
Huh? I think you guys are getting carried away with this post moving stuff. I posted this for commentary on the loss of our personal freedoms, not on the trendiness of some kewl new "gadget".
 
Yeah, then no one would read it! :p

As it is I'm not too worried about loss of peronal freedom. I'm more worries about security for these little buggers. If they can give out all the info they say they can, they there had better be some damn good protection on it. But if they can get it right then a whole lot of cool stuff is going to start happening!

But as to privacy, its almost none existant. Your credit cards, cell phone, computer, drivers lisense, your car, your...tons of stuff allows you to be tracked. And most of it you pay for!
 
That's what I was initially worried about. I wasn't sure whether to post it in the politics or for the community at large. I never dreamt of gadgets and gear. That's like posting news of the first moon landing in gadgets and gear. A rocket is just a large expensive piece of gear, after all.
 
If the chip becomes mandatory, then I'm heading for the hills. At the risk of sounding biblical about this, the whole idea seems to have the "mark of the beast" ring to it.
 
grnamin said:
At the risk of sounding biblical about this, the whole idea seems to have the "mark of the beast" ring to it.

You people are paranoid!

The device has to be read from a couple of feet, with a proprietory scanner. Only "their" scanner must be used. It is a passive chip, so it is not transmitting freely, only when it's scanned. The data that is received from the chip is a 16 digit number. That's all. The 16 digit number is used to access a file containing the your data.

For security - restrict who is allowed to buy the scanner, and who is granted access to the database.

This is far from "Big Brother."

BTW - I own some stock in Applied Digital Solutions. Nice jump in price!
 
Lets see... you can get this implant OR you can get a MedicAlert bracelet/pendant (does the same sort of thing but it has been around much longer and relies on an engraved number instead of a rfid tag). You could probably use it as a bargining chip to lower your insurance costs.

I'd be wary about having this sort of thing implanted into me (hell, I don't even have piercings!), especially since microwaves tend to fry them. This is not exactly what I would call Orwellian but its feasible that some health schemes in the future may require one of these or a bracelet equivilent.
 
Centaur... that is a pretty naive viewpoint...

Anybody can scan those chips without you even knowing about it if they have the technology... and anybody can get ahold of the appropriate technology these days... (visit your vet, they have the scanners there that already read these chips... what do you think they take for security precautions to keep others from getting or using them?) And I'm not yet getting into the technology that would allow Big Brother to install scanners in every door frame in public areas to keep track of who comes and goes... :mad:

And, I guess you haven't kept up with the abilities of the hackers of the world... that database is just a nice fat target for those that want to get into it...

and if you want to think in terms of paranoia... well, we could look at this new database as the precursor for a national registry... now, just think if someone could read your info on the sly and then use that info to do way more than simple identity theft... and there is no way in heck that our government could guarranty the integrity of a system like that...

but this is all just my .02's worth... and yes, today does have a distinctly Orwellian cast to it... :grumpy:
 
joeshredd said:
Centaur... that is a pretty naive viewpoint...

... and yes, today does have a distinctly Orwellian cast to it... :grumpy:

Sorry, I beg to differ, hopefully without seeming too defensive. But I refuse to get into a "slippery slope" arguement.

The scanners have a limited range. (According to the VeriChip web site, like 3-4".) This is not like "lojacking" people. I won't get into what would happen if a scanner were to be stolen from a Vet's office. I'm not sure if they are DC or AC powered. But someone chasing you while trying to hide a 500' extension cord would be a dead giveaway.

There are much easier (and cheaper) ways to commit identity theft.

As far as the database goes, I am well aware of them newfangled hackers. But if it's possible to control what goes into the database, then it's possible to control what is accessed. And you indeed control what is put into yours. You pay for it's maintenance.

Most people carry their insurance card with them, So there would be no need for a SSN to be in the database. Most people don't carry their medical history with them, so pertinent medical info may be something you would want to put in.

Maybe I am being naive, but with this product in it's current state, "Big Brother" can't watching your every move.

Will I get an implant? No. But If I have severe medical problems, I might consider it.

But if you really want to "lojack" yourself, You can! The same company makes a wristwatch stype GPS transceiver. It's called Digital Angel.
 
Med info today, banking and political affiliations tomorrow.

Thanks, but no thanks.

And DVD techonology was highly secure until a couple of guys hacked the code and started wearing it on T-shirts.

;)
 
I have several objections to an implanted data access chip. To keep it simple, at this point, let's start with the current technology.

The article beginning this discussion showed that it can now be used to monitor and thereby restrict access to an area within a building. It can also be read by an unauthorized scanner, to derive the code number. Hacking the medical or other databse would give unauthorized eyes access to supposedly private data.

Worse, the massive databases to be accessed will certainly be under no obligation of accuracy or completeness.

Here are two letters to the editor of The Daily Telegraph, complaining about a proposed medical data base in the UK:

Re: New system is superfluous
Date: 15 October 2004

Sir - Most GPs have a computer record system similar to mine (News, Oct 12). My system has a summarised record of all my patients which could be downloaded at any time to be given to the patient, or e-mailed to another destination right now.

Things would be even better if the secondary care system (i.e. the hospitals) would e-mail correspondence and reports to me, instead of sending paper copies. To get paper information into my patients' notes, I have to employ staff to transcribe information into the electronic record. A crazy state of affairs, given that the same data is stored and transferred electronically within the hospitals.

A centralised record system is superfluous; we already have the basics of a satisfactory system now. Why then does the Government need a centralised system? I suspect a hidden agenda to do with "control". Anyway, the idea needs to be condemned, because it will be a disaster, given the previous track record of these adventures.

Some other questions arise: will the private sector of healthcare be allowed to access the central database? Will alternative therapists, the latest darling of this Government, also have access? Which government departments will be accessing the data? I do not hold out much hope for confidentiality.

From:
Dr John Plumb, Abergavenny, Mons

Re: Selective records
Date: 15 October 2004

Sir - You are quite right to ridicule the Government's obsession with creating an IT database that includes the health record of every person in the country, for it is a project that can never be reliably completed, and, being for ever incomplete, will not be used by doctors or other NHS staff in the diagnosis and treatment of illness.

It cannot be completed because much diagnosis is not certain, and doctors will always differ in what they think is worth recording. Should a toenail operation of 30 years ago be on the record? A minor head injury? Exposure to possible HIV? A throat infection? Every minor complaint of "frequent attenders"?

Some patients' written notes already approach War and Peace dimensions. If sanity dictates that the record must be selective, who selects? Only GPs have the training and skills to make a reasonable job of it, but, with 1,800 patients each, they would all have to stop work for six months just to enter the data.

Even if the IT record could be created (which it never will be), of what use would it be? No doctor ever takes another doctor's findings on trust: that is the fast route to an appearance before the General Medical Council.

Rather, every patient contact involves a new history-taking and examination. Of what value is a second opinion otherwise? So the computer record, selective and subjective, for ever fundamentally flawed, will simply fall into disuse.

What a dreadful waste of an enormous sum of money - a sum that could plug the pensions black hole.

From:
Dr S. R. S. Hurren, Mappowder, Dorset
 
Can be read from 16 ft away? How about walking into Walmart or any other store? These things could be literally anywhere and if you ask me it's nobodies' f****** business where I go or shop. These things are a BAD idea IMO. :(
 
Esav... a much better read than mine...

And Centaur, I'm not picking on ya... but the technology already exists to read those chips at distances of greater than 4'... and they are portable and battery operated... So, if i sit at a cafe and you walk by... well, if you have a chip in, it can be read.
And no database is as secure as you are posing - someone has to access it to enter info, and for every program, there are going to be backdoors into it to allow others into it as well... and I expect that the SSN's will be part of that database so the Gov't can keep track of stuff...



Oh well, if the truth were to be told, y'all might actually find out that this is the start of a system that we may end up facing regardless of who we put into office... I hope not... but once a bureaucracy starts a project like this, it ususally developes a momentum all of it's own... and all of our info may end up there... Drivers license, voting, health, employment, criminal... if you can get a little information, they'll try and get it all...
:grumpy:

where's my Tequila???
 
Walk into a store, buy a package of cookies, walk back outside and try to open them, grrr, pull out Spyderco Jester, slit the top of the plastic bag ... ahhh. "WHY are you CARRYING such a DANGEROUS weapon :eek: :confused:

The public picks up on some really poor assumptions, especially when their government explains patiently how much better off we'd all be if ...

"Excuse me, sir, but my scanner doesn't seem to be picking up your implant?" :( "What do you mean, you refuse to have one? The government needs to secure your medical - financial - employment - purchasing - and residential data to be able to help you, doesn't it?"

Wait. UK has so many cameras mounted all over that there's a backlash now that pedestrians are being run down by motorists checking their speedometers before going through intersections so they don't get caught over the limit.

Wait. Chicago is looking to cover their streets with cameras, too.

Wait. "You are not authorized to be in this neighborhood after business hours, according to the information accessed by your implant."

How would they know that? Well, all the police cars around here have a computer in the front so the officer can run instant checks on ID, drivers licenses, plates ... all we need is a law implementing whatever restrictions that the implant can access.

Right now, there are no such laws, and the databases aren't as useful until they're combined and automatically accessible. By any government agency, which means ... by anyone.
 
I truly can't believe that anybody could think of this as a good idea.

1. Who do we trust to make sure that only relevant medical information will be stored on this chip? The government?

2. Who else can see the future of "medical chip" upgrades? Next thing you know, we'll have DNA information stored on the chips, deemed need by the medical profession to pick out birth defects. Hitler would have loved that for tracking down Jews.

3. Imagine the USA becoming like other countries, with governmental medical care. How does that chip sound now?

4. Do you really think that there won't be scanners 4 feet apart across the USA if this takes hold?

5. All it takes is one scanner to fall into the hands of the private or public sector, for the scanner to be universally obtainable.
 
I'll add to Esav's last post. Suppose average people can scan your chip, which is inevitable, even though there's nothing other than basic medical information. Then they notice that they can't scan me at the singles bar, because I refuse to have the chip implanted. Suddenly..... People start wondering why I refuse to let others know my medical information. Does he have AIDS? Herpes? Syphilis? "Non-chippers" will be the outcasts of society for their lack of conformity, and be deemed CONTAGEOUS!!!! You can't trust a non-chipper because he's surely hiding something.
 
Buzzbait said:
2. Who else can see the future of "medical chip" upgrades? Next thing you know, we'll have DNA information stored on the chips, deemed need by the medical profession to pick out birth defects. Hitler would have loved that for tracking down Jews.

OK, now we've fallen off the slippery slope into the abyss!

Really, before anyone else goes off on the conspiracy theory tangent, please check out the company's information on the chip, scanner, and database.

http://www.4verichip.com/

I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind here. That's my last word on the subject.
 
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