If No One Looked at the Film

M

munk

Joined
Mar 22, 2002
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This idea deserved its own thread. What Bill said reminds me of something my Old Man might say. He's not a Budhist but a wise old redneck in his own right.

Life used to be different. People and societies made better decisons. We don't reveal the names of rape victims- or didn't used to. The media wouldn't think of it.

We know how issues are decided in the public mind by media coverage. Many of you feel as I that the gun debate is one sided, with all the photos of gun shootings-"film at 11" - giving the impression we live in the Wild West.
Today on Middle Eastern TV the pictures of 'collateral damage" civilian casualties, are shown disproportionately, and in many cases falsely, to an audience that is all too willing to believe the US as baby rapers and prison abuse perpetrators.

So without rehashing the specifics of some older threads now- we've done that- what do you think about what Bill said?

If some terrorists raped a woman on tape, will the networks show that someday too?

What Bill said reached me deeply- because the way the world is starts with one man's decision- not to look.
I hate to say it. but the wise men like Bill, the Old Farts. aren't being listened to. How would it be if our culture and society was more cohesive, in tune, and when terrorists released such a video immediately the Elders and Statesmen and others spoke out against it's getting airplay, and as a nation and people we then choose not to watch? But the wise old men's voices are not being heard. And guys like me, who want to do good, do what we can.

munk
 
I agree munk, that's why I haven't watched it and I also don't think it should have been aired. We're airing their propoganda for them and it's having exactly the desired effect. I don't watch the news voluntarily anymore either, mostly because I don't want an ulcer before I'm 25. I don't need to know the sordid details about every single bad thing that happened in the world today. My own little part of it is screwed up enough most of the time as it is.
 
I have not seen it either and I have no plans too...I already have enough hate in me of those people
 
I suspect that a lot of the:
1-advice
2-suggestions
3-recommendations
4-prohibitions

given out by:

1-old farts
2-mothers
3-ministers
4-good friends
5-ethicists
6-moralists
7-village elders

are ignored because of the nagging need to feed most folks insatiable curiosity and to make some money selling the:

1-violent
2-bizzare
3-perverse
4-tragic
5-depraved
6-extreme

and the young and inexperienced are resentful that others have "been there and done that" and they wanna do it too cause I believe that the more extreme an experience is the deeper it is imprinted into one's memory. I bet many here remember their first moment of,shall we say, "erotic estacy' much clearer than their first bowl of oatmeal. ;)

"The deep limbic system, along with the deep temporal lobes has also been reported to store highly charged emotional memories, both positive and negative. If you have been traumatized by a dramatic event, such as being in a car accident or watching your house burn down, or if you have been abused by a parent or a spouse, the emotional component of the memory is stored in the deep limbic system of the brain. On the other hand, if you have won the lottery, graduated magna cum laude, or watched your child's birth, those emotional memories are stored here as well. The total experience of our emotional memories is responsible, in part, for the emotional tone of our mind. The more stable, positive experiences we have the more positive we are likely to feel. The more trauma in our lives the more emotionally set we become in a negative way. These emotional memories are intimately involved in the emotional tagging that occurs."

http://www.brainplace.com/bp/brainsystem/limbic.asp

So there is real value in "just saying NO" and not looking.
 
I just finished a sociology class, and one of the things I learned in that class is just how few companies own almost all of the media outlets in the US. They are only interested in making money, all too often at the expense of other preople's lives. All of us need to look at what they are feeding us, how it shapes our thoughts and beliefs and feelings; and then reject it like the poison it is.
 
I have little doubt that most of the problems in the world are either caused or exacerbated (sorry, can't think of a smaller word) by some media trying to either sell something, or trying to boost their ratings/audience coverage.

I have zero intention of watching the video, for much the same reason that I'm not going to watch Mel Gibson's 'Passion of Christ': I know it happened, the details are better left to the imagination.
 
munk,

I guess I can see both sides of the argument I think that people need to see what happened, because the media isn't making a big deal out of it. I've provided links to the video to those that are mature and have asked, because I think people need to see that our opponents aren't nice peace loving Americans. In their own way they are as bad, evil, misguided, culturally degenerate, whatever term you want to use, as was the roman empire, third reich, vlad dracu and the Japanese Military system in their eras. IMHO while the Greatest Generation have become the Neediest Generation, their saving grace was stopping their lives to fight against pure evil.

I don't think any of us have missed pictures of the survivors and victims of Bataan, or Dauchau. it is my opinion that this is the same thing.

However the video disgusted me. I was filled with anger. No, that is what I've been telling myself. It was rage and hate. It made my stomach turn. I had to watch it twice to prove to myself that it wasn't Hollywood. I was very happy to be off the following day. I wasn't fit to be around.

I don't think it's only the middle eastern people that show the war inappropriately. Co-workers and friends have come back to say that many iraqis seem genuinely happy to see the Americans.

The media seems to be pushing their agenda. I guess that's why I watch fox news. Locally my own employer has been taking a beating over a decision of what printed media items they will sell.

I think that's enough from me, I'm not sure I'm making sense now. However if any of you are interested may I respectfully suggest the following articles ?

Educational Link Here are some very good articles about has happened and is happening in that section of the world today.

I would also like to mention again that while I don't want to take anything away from the cantina I still think an OT email list would be a good idea for things that may stray beyond the pale.
 
I've a nephew going through some tough times lately- of his own making. He's voiced a few suicidal ideations, broken a few sticks of furniture. Now, before we go off on a tangent of teenagers and cries for help- let me assure you all that everything suitable is being done. But I told my Sister when a kid starts acting out, he looks back to see what effect he's achieved. If they overeact to his anger displays, his 'troubled' angst, then he looks at himself through their eyes and suddenly says, "Hey- I'm the guy who actually talked about hurting myself. I'm in some heavy sh-t here. Woah. I must be really screwed up." And it feeds upon itself.



munk
 
"reject it like the poison it is"

here here!

Kill your TV!

I also studied much about the media machinations in my college years. Turns out the media has these guys called "Gatekeepers" who control what stories break and which do not (i.e. are subverted). These guys are for sale like lobbyists in Washington. Corps, Govt officials, and wealthy independents can influence and shape the media, give certain orders to enhance or suppress issues or parts of stories, add spin, etc.

Question authority. Think for yourself.

Keith
 
I hardly ever watch the news on TV anymore for many of the reasons mentioned. If it were'nt for the History channel (mail Call), The Simpsons and Cartoon Network I'd never watch TV.
I like to listen to National public radio on the way to and from work and I've learned alot. I especially enjoy "all things considered." I have'nt watched the video nor do I intend to.

John
 
fer vidgames and watching DVDs and VHS. Used to watch Speed channel, but now all that NASCAR is in the way of my FIA Rally and CART racing. At least the Int'l Gran Prix is coming on line. I'm going to it when it is here in Speedway, IN this year!
 
I don't need to watch violence to be willing to kill the enemies of my countrymen, or support those who do.

John
 
Life used to be different. People and societies made better decisons.

Actually, this is not true. "There is nothing new under the sun." Yeah, technology may change, but people as a species do and have not. Ever hear of yellow journalism? Do some careful research regarding the era at the end of the 1800's to early 1900's. Numerous conflicts fought by the US fueled or almost entirely caused by "creative" reporting.

Listened to an interview with the editor of the paper that first ran the story of the Wright Brother's first flight. About the only part they got right was that there was, indeed, an airplane- and it did fly.

The rest they made up. Even more common in the past than today.

John
 
The problem now is the speed at which events happen and are reported. Everything is immediate, there is no time for reflection, discussion or thought. Look at our elected represenatives, if something happens, they have to pass a law right now in reaction. Even if it is a stupid or useless law, they have to do something to look like they are doing something.
 
Spectre, yes, everything's the same as it ever was, and everything's different too. Film footage of a throat being slit would not have been circulated 40 years ago. Women marrying women and men marrying each other was not prevelant 40 years ago. We didn't have the homocide rate we do today as 40 years ago. And so on. Things do change. I'm not sure if I can go with your assertion the species does not change, either. I took a course once on the quality of life in Medieval Europe. The pace of thought was much, much slower. Humans are larger now than they have ever been. The IQ keeps going up, as Brittany's clothes come down- or off.

I think whether the feedback or reflection comes from TV, print, or academia, it is still precarious. The 'feedback loop"

What happens if terrorists held a press conference and no one came?


munk
 
the more they stay the same.

Spec was referring to mankind as an organism. Same hoops different day, different hoops, same day. We're all still jumpin thru em.

Ask yourself this: Is progress real?

Mull that one around fer a while. Spooky...

Keith
 
Actually, Ferrous, Spec quoted this: <<Life used to be different. People and societies made better decisons>>.
And Spectre said this wasn't true.

this is the full quote: "Life used to be different. People and societies made better decisons. We don't reveal the names of rape victims- or didn't used to. The media wouldn't think of it."

Specte said this was not ture. It is a fact, however, that our society 40 years ago would not have shown Through ANY OULET the execution, and that society has changed: Life has changed.

And this was my the summation:
How would it be if our culture and society was more cohesive, in tune, and when terrorists released such a video immediately the Elders and Statesmen and others spoke out against it's getting airplay, and as a nation and people we then choose not to watch? But the wise old men's voices are not being heard. And guys like me, who want to do good, do what we can.

The point being we've drifted away from health. Now, if you and Spectre wish to discuss how this is all another Roman empire crashing, and there is nothing new, go forth.

Like I said, I should have re read my original post and not bit on Spectre's misread.


munk




I .
 
Life has not been different, munk. Realize this is a disagreement, not a personal attack. In Rome, women were eventually raped before being executed- the law said that no virgins could be executed (obviously intending to spare them), but this came to be perverted.

Now, in your post, you are making a broad claim (Life was different; better decisions were made), and then you narrow it down. I just faced the broader contention.

The truth is, public executions were the norm in America for the majority of our history. If we had the technology, it would appear to be a no-brainer that the executions would have been televised.

munk, you may be correct that technology has indeed led to an evolution of thought, as it were, but to imply that there is some inherent good in man or society that has been lost, is just silly. There are both positive and negatives to living in our current time, just as there have been for every other place and time. In truth, there are probably quite a few more positives we could find today, than at any other time in known history.

Keith, I was indeed referring to man as an organism, thank you.

John, History major, psych minor, BS specialist.... :footinmou
 
munk,

I think maybe you're trying to argue for some decency from people. That's a good motivation, to be sure.

People are attracted to the sensational, however. It is probably better to just acknowledge this, and find productive ways to work with it.

...which is what my whole point was about the yellow journalism, and American conflicts.
 
Spectre, the only thing I reacted to was your quoting me out of context into something I did not say.

You said people are the same. I didn't. However, I did respond to this and said I doubted this was true. But this is the kind of question I find both answers are better than either no or yes. Are they the same? Yes. Are they the same? No.

" Life used to be different. People and societies made better decisons." munk

"Actually, this is not true. Yeah, technology may change, but people as a species do and have not." Spectre

"Life used to be different. People and societies made better decisons. We don't reveal the names of rape victims- or didn't used to. The media wouldn't think of it." And this was my quote in context.

As you can see, I did not say people have not changed, or had changed- you did. I said we made better decisons and that LIFE had changed.


"some inherent good in man or society that has been lost, is just silly."

My post specifically addressed a society we have lost- the cohesive society of the 50's and 60's. Out of wedlock births today, crime rate today, declining test scores- by nearly any measure you could name we have declined. Yes, some inherent good is lost.
I offered you Rome as an analogy you and Ferrous would accept because this fits your theory it is all the same- the cycle of rise and decline is similar, at any rate.

I have no interest is this topic. I had an keen interest in wise men, and healthier societies listening to them and imaking better decisons.


munk
 
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