If someone wanted to start a small sharpening business...

C

ciliatus

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What's the "quickest" route to a marketable service. I thoroughly enjoy sharpening my knives with my Lansky diamond setup and the additional ultra-fine yellow hone, and "stropping" on some cardboard. And I get a damn fine edge on them. But, theoretically speaking, if I wanted to set up a profitable sharpening business, what would you think would be the best direction to go? Something like a Tormek system, the Edgepro system, or other? I realize that any system will take a considerable amount of practice to become proficient enough to have a sellable service. But which direction is the best starting point? This is mostly out of curiosity but I could see this being something I could enjoy doing for some extra cash eventually.
 
It will only make you money if your good at it. Sharpening your own knives is easy, sharpening everyone else's is not.
 
^
+1. Plus, you screw up your own knife, you cuss, you get made, you have a beer. You screw up someone elses knife, it isn't as easy.
 
ciliatus said:
If someone wanted to start a small sharpening business... What's the "quickest" route to a marketable service....
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Talk to people in the business, see what kind of services they offer, see what they do, compare their services to what you're thinking of selling, develop a business plan... , there are no shortcuts

See links to a chef sharpening on waterstones in his off time http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Need-Cash-Need-Advice?p=15107987#post15107987

ciliatus said:
But, theoretically speaking, if I wanted to set up a profitable sharpening business, what would you think would be the best direction to go? Something like a Tormek system, the Edgepro system, or other? I realize that any system will take a considerable amount of practice to become proficient enough to have a sellable service. But which direction is the best starting point? This is mostly out of curiosity but I could see this being something I could enjoy doing for some extra cash eventually.
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Neither :) see sharpener pete above, 13min per kitchen knife on waterstones ... chef sharpening for chefs who like fancy japanese knives

If you're thinking of power equipment, find a buddy who has some, try it out ...


Most parking lot sharpeners , van guys, I've seen, use a beltsander ... so do knifemakers ...
I can't remember where I read it but the impression made sense to me, tormek's are for hobby wood workers :)

on a belt sander, to change grits, you change belts
on a tormek to change grits, you "grade" the wheel (rub it with abrasive "dressing stick" )

Before setting up in a parking lot or ..., try your family/friends, sharpen their knives for free, ask what you could charge for the service... $1/inch seems common for both good and bad jobs


salons/barbers/scissors appear to be guy with a van territory ... if there is no guy with a van, you could be that guy :) but there is probably always a guy

update: This guy has some kind of start your own knife sharpening business ... tutorial ... Stoned Edge Knife Sharpening ... lays in on kind of thick :)
 
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buy a viel s-5and the attachments, with the right belt and attachment you can do carbide sharpening as well.
 
I own a Tormek T-7 and I get stupid sharp knives with the stock stone. With water cooled sharpening you don't run the risk of bluing the blade and thus ruining the hardening. You can buy three different stones. The original 400/1000 grit stone, the HSS/ceramic stone and the japanese 4000 grit stone. You can sharpen any blade with this using the various jigs. I'm really looking forward to getting the 4000 grit stone. :)
 
There's always someone with a "Be Your Own Boss" kit and willing to sell it to you. The catch is that you will pay $5000 (seems to be the average for any business start-up kit). But you will actually be getting $500 of actual product, receive their "Business Quick Start Guide", usually a pamphlet, and have the requirement to buy supplies from the parent company at amazingly high markups. Stay away from those.

I would suggest reading ALL of the sharpening threads here on the forum, then go buy one or more (or all) of the top suggested sharpening systems. Start on your own cheap knives. Progress through all of your expensive knives before even offering to do freebies for friends and family. Once you are proficient, and everyone around you starts saying, hey, you should do this for a living....then and only then should you touch someone else's knives.

By that time, you will have acquired multiple systems (because all have their strengths and weaknesses), and you will know what will work best on what. Unless you spend years becoming proficient at Japanese waterstones, you'll most likely need the variety of setups to accommodate different customers.

Then you'll need to decide if you want to be a boutique sharpener, returning ultra sharp perfectly balanced bevels, finished exactly how the customer wants it (toothy, frosty, mirror polish). Possibly spending hours per knife, but charging $5-$20 per inch. Or a van hack with an electric grinding wheel sharpener, possibly putting out crap for $3-$5 per job. To be honest, most of the public would not recognize a crap job as long as it cuts paper better than before.

Ok, I'm not a paid sharpener. But did consider it and spent quite a bit of time investigating, while learning a bit of skill. Even after many hours upon hours practicing, I would still consider myself amateur. I also had the opportunity to interact with some trying to do the same thing. Hard road unless you are the only guy in a 200 mile radius with equipment and some skill.

Long story longer....is it possible? Sure. But unless you are already proficient at the skill, it's not as easy as buying a machine, mounting it to a bench in your van, and hitting the bricks. That local sporting goods shop that you plan on hitting up to be "their guy", has had 300 before you give the same line.
 
Something to consider... Now that I'm doing this full time, I see that he is spot on =) Not that you were wanting to do it full time but you may take a way a few points that can help.

S. Sibert said:
17+ years of making knives 9 years of being full time, this is my humble perspective and insight.

1. Knifemaking has real health risks. Grinding steel, manmade and natural handle materials adhered with exotic epoxies creates nasty particulates. Even with great dust collecting set ups and living in your respirator, inhalation is unavoidable over long term. Many things that knifemakers use/grind also get absorbed through the skin also like acetone, chromium, aluminum, ect….. I think I have a developed a allergic response to G-10 after all these years.

2. Taxes. Being self-employed/ business owner means you pay your taxes out of pocket via estimated quarterlies, you get to write a nice fat check to Uncle Sam. 4 times a year $$$$. If you actually happen to make any sort of slim profit over the estimated tax for that year, be prepared to pay more on top of what you all ready paid. Good luck getting refunds. Many people run under the table, and many friends and fellow makers are always ready and eager to give you tax "advice". But if you don’t want a letter or a knock at the door down the road from the IRS, and end up like Wesley Snipes, I suggest investing in a solid CPA and be ready to a take a bruising. Audits are stomach churning. Keep it honest, as this is truly the best policy, you don’t want it to come back and bite you in the ass years down the line.

3. Health insurance. Absolutely vital. You will have to purchase your own health insurance, $$$. Or if your fortunate enough to have a spouse that can add you to their plan is the best.

4. Injury. If you suffer an injury or illness that prevents you from working even a few days then your screwed as there is no one there to take up the slack or make knives for you to fall back on. That means no motorcycles, no bicycles, no ice skating, generally no risky or irresponsible behavior to put your flow of production in jeopardy. Bottom line, no output of product means no income.

5. Divorce. Many people suffer a divorce, which in general is not really ever planned. if that happens, any life line to that person that you need to stay afloat in knifemaking is severed, meaning no more additional income or health insurance, possible child support and alimony that you may have to pay out and loss property/house/shop and therefore if your knifemaking business if not self sufficient it will be difficult to be able to recover from that blow. Being a knifemaker and self-employed can strain relationships and your spouse/partner has to be understanding and behind you and have a plan. I lost my marriage over knifemaking.

6. Income. In general, income from knifemaking is spotty and unreliable. Most of society is so conditioned to get a paycheck every week or 2 on the nose. Being self-employed just throw that concept out the window. There may be weeks to months where you have nothing monetary coming in as you prepare knives to get done, waiting on steel, waiting on sheaths, waiting on payment from customers, machinery breakdowns long list of hiccups that interrupt money flow constantly. As we all know knifemaking requires much time and effort even when you already have established skills and products to peddle. That is why one of the goals/grails of individual knifemakers is to strive for consistency in income. Being the only wage earner in a family will be tough.

7. Hobbies that become your job. You will need to live, eat and breath your work to succeed for years. 24/7. Your hobby now is a career and new rules now apply. You just can’t make knives when you feel like it for a few hours every other weekend now you must make knives everyday to keep product rolling, to feed your kids and keep the bills paid. Now it is work. Playtime is over.

8. Sustainability. For any business to succeed you need hard absolute long term goals and direction. Without out a clear direction, ambition, drive, forethought, tenacity, perseverance, lack of consistency in quality your business could wobble. Constantly improving your skills over time, having consistent quality and craftsmanship, being innovative, getting publicity and exhibiting good customer relations will help you become successful while building a solid customer base may take years to achieve. Building a customer base is vital to having long term sustainability and longevity in this business.

9. Motivation. A big enemy of knifemakers. Linked to the dreaded “burnout” Self-employed also means being self-motivated for year after year, is a key to success. Distractions for self-employed people are the bane of the concept. Sacrifice and self discipline are crucial. You have to treat it like a job and a business and set yourself in a schedule and pattern and to eliminate distractions that may pull you from working, like Video games, family, yard work, gym, computers ect….

10. Product. Making knives people actually want to buy.

11. Dirty. Knifemaking is dirty, dingy work. Does your shop have heat or air conditioning? Summers and winters can be harsh with no climate control. Most only see the end result of our hard work, a cool and beautiful knife. The actual making of the knife is not so glamorous and is rather boring and beats the crap out of your hands and back.

12. Alone. Long hours of working alone with no adulations and listings to the radio, so if you’re a social butterfly this may be hard and also distracting (see motivation)

13. Dependants. Do you have a family that depends on your income to stay afloat? If so, this will be a challenge.

14. Frugal. Tighten the belt and learn to like Top Ramen…every day. Let’s see do I need to order grinding belts, steel, Micarta to make product to sell or do I need to buy a family member a new pair of shoes for school or pay that speeding ticket or pay the county/state business licensing fee or make a health plan payment?

15. Debt. Best to go into self-employment debt free or there is a extremely high chance to becoming overwhelmed with bills and responsibly quickly as knifemaking supplies add up fast and the house payment or property taxes are magically due all at the same time. This is just supplies not to include trying to set up a shop with initial cost out of pocket.

16. Unemployment. Generally, self-employed business owners are considered “unemployed” and because of that we have little or no back-up in case of emergency. So, unlike our counterparts in the job market of employers & employees/companies, if we can’t work for some reason, there is no getting unemployment checks for 6 month or a year while we look for another job. . Being a fulltime knifemaker is a sink or swim proposition self reliant on your own determination to make it a success.

17. Jack of all Trades. Knifemaking is more than just actually making knives, you have to figure out how to run a business, how to make money, how to ship and receive, how to deal with the IRs, how to have good customer relations, how to fix things, know the basics of computers, marketing, phone skills, designing and drafting, CAD work, basic machining skills, planning and juggling various non-knifemaking tasks at once is a learning curve that must be factored in.

18. Lawyer. Wise to have available legal representation and funds for it. What happens if that knife you named the “Undertaker” on a macho whim is actually is used in a crime/defense by someone and now your being called into court to explain to the court why you named it with such aggressive name?

19. Insurance. Do you have business insurance on top of all the other insurance that your currently carry?

20. Retirement. Being a fulltime maker and self-employed now it is your responsibility to contribute to your own retirement fund/IRA since no one else/employer is doing it for you. Is that something you can do on a regular basis along with al the other financial responsibilities? Otherwise, there won’t be much to receive once you want to retire. I have pretty come to peace with the fact that I’ll be grinding until the end.

21. Vacation……LOL! What is that?

Hope this helps not to discourage, but to give an outline of what is ahead and to think and prepare for. Take it seriously, buckle down for the long haul and it can be done.

Nose to the grindstone.
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I respect the guys that do this for a living. A few have chimed in on this post. You need to be very good, and also very careful. Just as a chef is only as good as his last meal, a pro sharpener is as good as his last knife.
Knife owners who would use a service like this are very lucky and one bad job could be disastrous.
More power to you but I would think long and hard about getting into this line of work. Start slow, start small, and take pride in your work.
Russ
 
There are a couple of outfits in my area that only use a Tormek. Then the customers come to me and I fix whatever the item is that was hosed up. Not a good way to go as stated above. In my case there was no local sharpening service that I could find. There are many sharpening services close by but the quality was lacking and the wait time unreasonable. One outfit uses a pull through sharpener for knives. Although a quality / pricey item edge quality is still an issue but its cheap for the customer and most don't know any better. One fella sharpened on oil stones and used a buffer to finish. Was in business for over twenty years. Crappy edges, never did any bolster work, overcharged etc etc. Nice fella. What possessed him to sharpen for a living is beyond me. But he made a living at it until he couldn't do it anymore.

So just because there may be other services in your area doesn't mean yours can't be better. Its the getting better that takes time, money, patience and perseverance. Marketability is something that comes with time and reputation. Really the last thing to be concerned about.

There may be a service that isn't covered in your area. Clipper blades, salon shears, circular saw blades, router bits and hole saws are something I get asked about allot. All those venues are very expensive to get into as the equipment and possibly education expenses are so high. So find a service that nobody offers in your area and concentrate on that to start. If it works out you can use the monies that service brings in to fund other endeavors and expand your horizons.

I'm retired and I sharpen more for personal satisfaction than the money. But the extra bucks are a good thing. If your going to try to feed your family in the sharpening business you have to be mobile and varied in your services offered.
 
Thanks, everyone, for your input. As I mentioned in the first post, I was mostly just curious. Between my full-time job, helping my wife run a home business, and taking care of a 5 month old, I have no time to start another venture. However, in my very limited spare time I have been working on making my first knife. I also buy old, quality knives from garage sales and clean them up and resharpen them for resale. I know that eventually I will probably outgrow my Lansky. All of the above info gave me plenty of food for thought. Thank you again.
 
One last thing that I'm surprised no one's mentioned so far: you need to be prepared to handle all the fame, glory, and excitement when you start such an endeavor. Many people are unprepared when it happens that it quickly gets to their head and things quickly fall apart.

But it's interesting to me that you're able to resell knives with a Lansky set up. I never got the hang of it.

For the business point of view, you need to define who your customer is. I only know of two viable sharpening services customers: utilitarian (restaurants, meat cutters, etc.) and knife enthusiasts. The service each requires, I believe, is a different kind of sharpening service. Then you have to ask yourself whether you can provide that service they want.

Once you define your customer base, then you can figure out what pricing they are willing to give you. And giving the pricing, how much volume can you expect to have. And with that volume and pricing, you have to figure out if you'll be making money given your one time and ongoing costs.

Good luck and best wishes.
 
A lot of people who do this for a living can sharpen almost anything. Lawn mower blades up through knives. Around here it is @ $8 for a lawn mower blade, but that includes cleaning, sharpening, and a coat of paint. I think a new sharpener would be hard pressed to make a good income from just sharpening knives, but you might be able support your hobby to some extent. Also, as noted, lot of threads regarding this question.
 
That Sharpening Guy said:
I am curious to what you had to fix when something was sharpened on a Tormek?
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I'm guessing this a response to my post. If not oh well. Uneven bevels, frowns or smiles, ruined blade shapes, poor angle choice for the item, expensive folders hosed up and more but that's enough. I'm glad they are out there so more business comes my way.

Its not specifically the Tormek. Its who is doing the sharpening. One cannot effectively sharpen knives in a timely manner on a Tormek. At least to my standards. You can't reshape or joint. Is the knifes tipped? Then what. Bolster work? Good luck.

The Tormek is a unit designed for the hobbyist. I does many things pretty darn well. Knives just aren't one of those things. I've had one for many years and still use it from time to time. But only for items in which it excels.
 
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