If you don't mind, I'm looking for your 2 cents.

B

BWForge

Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
10
Hello all,

I’m new to this forum and I’m looking for a little help from you experts. I’ll give a little background on me. My name is Brendan and I’ve been in the Navy for almost 18 years. I’m currently running the navy sniper course in Indiana and I’ve got just a couple years left until I retire, which I’m really looking forward to.

I got into blacksmithing about a year ago, primarily for the reason of making knives (like so many do) and have been obsessed with it since. I haven’t made that many but I’d like your thoughts from what you see here. I realize I can’t show how it’s heat-treated but I’ll do my best to explain.

The below knife is forged from 1095 (¼ in thick, 1.5 in wide) stock. I hammered it to this desired thickness, annealed in vermiculite, cut the Sudoku shape, cold hammered a bit, normalized twice and on the third heat quenched in peanut oil. Washed off the oil and began to grind. I would have liked to get the grind farther up the blade but I’m a perfectionist and need a straight line. If I reduce the angle too much on my 42 in belt grinder I loose my perfect line and one side will inevitably have a higher mark. (side note: anyone selling a 2x72?)

I only went down to 320 grit on the blade…actually on the handle too. On that handle I used cocobolo and curly maple. After sanding I used a tung oil finish, 3 coats, buffed, before attaching with 5 min epoxy.

I’ve watched months of videos and surfed many custom knife sites learning along the way. I’ve taken If you would, please give me some feed back on every aspect of what you see. Shape, handle…everything. Also what kind of price would this knife command? Any info I’ve omitted please ask I’ll gladly give. I’ve got many more questions but lets start here.

Thank you all.

geez I'm sorry,

Forgot to write my tempering cycle. After a quick clean from the quench, I tempered for 1:45 hours twice at 400F. THEN I began grinding, carful not to heat it up during that process.

BWForge

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I would first like to say, that I am by no means a expert on santokus, but I do have experience in knife making and using kitchen knives.

In my opinion, 1/4 inch steel is too thick for that knife. I would recommend using 1/8 inch, or 3/16 is you want a thicker blade. The blade thickness, and low grind on this knife is more suitable for an outdoors knife. A higher grind on this knife would give you a thinner edge, which is better for kitchen knives.

Lastly, your blade has a "flat spot". The knife's belly is flat, then towards the tip, the edge sweeps sharply up to the tip. If you look at just about any modern kitchen knife, you will notice that the blade is constantly sweeping upwards at a small angle so that the blade never has a flat spot between the heel and the tip.

The knife looks great for someone that has only been knife making for a year. I like the hammered texture on the steel, and the finish on the handle. I look forward to seeing more of you work in the future.

 
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I am sorry, I had created a diagram showing the design and grind on you knife compared to a another knife, but it does not seem to be working. I also forgot to mention that as a registered user, I do not think that you are allowed to ask about pricing. I believe that that privilege is only given to paying members of this site.
 
I see to many makers trying to make it within kitchenknives. However just a few succeed.
To be honest most makers can't compete with mass production like masamoto, konosuke and so on. So regarding pricing I think makers that are not "there" yet shouldn't expect more for a knife than the mass-produced costs. If you really wanna go the kitchen knife direction, you should hang around forums that are for kitchen knives exclusively ;)


Us makers that makes a hell of a K knife:
Devin Thomas
Murray Carter
Bill Burke
Marko Tsourkan

US makers I personal believe in (haven't tried)
Michael Rader
Mike Davis
HHH custom Knives
Eric Fritz
Jessica Burke
Ian Haburn
Aaron Wilburn


If you really wanna go all in: study and get your hands on some mass-produced japanese knives, try it out. Read about them, get into cooking and talk to others that are really good at it. Expect a long journey my friend. Good luck :)
 
Knife is Life,
Thank you for the input, it's what I wanted. I probably shouldn't have put the pricing question on, I'm not selling knives, my joy is in making them. It was purely a question out of curiosity. Do you mean that 1/4 in is too thick to start forging from? It wasn't a purely stock removal job. Thanks again.
 
oivind_dahle,

I'm not sure at this point I'm really trying to make it, I just love the look and utility of kitchen knives over any others. I've looked at 8 out of those 11 names you've provided and thank you so much for them. I'll check out the others shortly. Much appreciated.
 
BW,
My apologizes, I thought that the finished knife blank was 1/4 inch thick. I do not forge, so I cannot give you input on what size steel to forge with. If you wouldn't mind, what are the dimensions for this knife? (Blade width, blade length/thickness, and OAL). -Knife is Life
 
I would say you have the fundamentals of a nice Santoku here, as mentioned the steel is a bit thick for a 50/50 bevel. There are Deba knives that are up to 1/2", these are chisel grinds so you can use that thickness.

I use 1/8 or 3/32' on mine and start with say 1 3/4 and the heel. I prefer stainless but you know better than I the problems with forging stainless. CPM-154 RC 60 Bos HT and Stabilized Bocote handle.image.jpg This pic is terrible but I wanted to show you the height at the heel.

Now as far as the edge line this one was a special order that the buyer wanted it flat out on the board with just a roll in at the front. So I suggest you continue on your learning path and use as many different knife as possible, also loan or do a Pass Around with your knives to different chefs and home cooks to get feedback.

I like the look of your knife and you are welcome to PM or email me any questions , I will gladly help if I can!
 
You certainly have a knack for it. I'd recommend both of Murray Carter's books: "Bladesmithing with Murray Carter" and "101 Knife Designs." These books helped me understand good kitchen knives a lot better.

- Chris
 
Knife is Life,

No prob. Blade height at heel is 1.78 in, thickness just in front of handle is .090, blade length 5.75 in, handle is 4.5 in, OAL is 10.75 in.
 
Hesparus,

Murray is my go to hero when I'm looking for anything. Haven't checked out 101 knife designs but have the other on order. Does 101 deal strictly with kitchen designs? I appreciate the help brother.

Brendan
 
Laurence,

Just looked at your web page and had tons of questions running through my head to ask, too many for here. Is the info@westsidesharpening a good email for you? I haven't done any stainless and would like to try it. I guess my biggest questions are where to get a fair price on stock and who heat treats it for you? Look forward to talking with you.

You're up the road a little ways but I'm always traveling up there, perhaps I'll stop in your shop if time permits. Thanks

Brendan
 
Hi BWForge.

Good effort for a first run at this type of knife. The flat profile is seen less on a santoku style knife, and especially so for a knife that is this small (it looks to have a blade length of less than 7 inches) unless you are trying to make a funayuki profile that is getting somewhat more common these days. Most people are going to rock-chop with a knife in this size range, so a more gently curved profile throughout the knife would be more useful in a knife this small.

Secondly, the grind appears to be quite thick. Japanese kitchen knives tend to be thinner than their Western counterparts, but can avoid issues with stiction and wedging by careful use of tapering and convex grinds. I'd suggest to both taper the grind a bit more from the spine, and move the height of the secondary bevel up a bit as well--a convex grind will help prevent foods from sticking, and the "forge finish" can also help food to release from the knife.

Perhaps the best teacher would be to get a mid-range Japanese knife in a similar style to what you are wanting to make, so that you have a reference in hand. Use it on vegetables, meats, and fruits to get a feel for how it cuts, and how the edge geometry interacts with different foods like squash, rutabaga, chicken, fish, and potatoes. Something like a 210 or 240 mm gyuto from Zakuri would likely be a good reference example at a reasonable price point. Unless you are very familiar with how a knife in this style should perform in the kitchen, I think it will be difficult to for me to explain in words how the knife should feel and perform.
 
In my limited experience, I have learned to thin Geometry, Geometry, Geometry. Forget about what looks good, and engineer the blade profile and edge geometry to what the purpose is. When I look at what the Japanese style blades are designed to cut, you can see the specialization in profile and geometry. It just so happens that the functional designs are quite beautiful. Your knife looks well made, and is finished well, for the style, but I would have taken the grind much higher.
 
Cynic2701,

Awesome...you've given me some great stuff to think about and research. I appreciate the input.
 
BWForge said:
Cynic2701,

Awesome...you've given me some great stuff to think about and research. I appreciate the input.
Click to expand...

No problem. If you ever feel like doing a passaround of one of your kitchen knives, I'd love to get on the list.
 
101 Knife Designs is about all types of knives, but it talks a lot about kitchen knives. The last section of the book is just patterns for knives that Murray has designed and which he encourages the reader to use. Studying his patterns taught me a lot about kitchen knife design. The book is worth it for these alone, but the rest is also very good.
 
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