If you had the choice: ATS-34 or 154-CM

bladeprince

bladeprince

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Jun 12, 2006
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If you had the choice of ATS-34 or 154-CM for the same knife, which would you choose and why? Assume both are heat treated to the same Rc 59.

Does one hold an edge better than the other? One get sharper than the other? Any big differences that would swing your choice.

From what I can tell (very much a layman's view point), they are similar steels in the upper quality range.

Thank you
 
ATS-34 seems to be harder to sharpen for me. It gets this annoying burr that takes more technique to get rid of.

154CM doesn't seem to get these "super" burrs as often (a bit of burr that is easily dealt with seems to be the rule).

Of course, that could just be unfortunate luck (as I've sharpened knives in both steels that formed difficult burrs).

So, I'd take 154CM.
 
They are the exact same steel. ATS -34 is made in Japan, 154 CM is made in the USA. other than that no differance.
 
killerskill said:
They are the exact same steel. ATS -34 is made in Japan, 154 CM is made in the USA. other than that no differance.
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That explains a lot. I had always read in the descriptions of this knife that it was ATS-34. However, I just bought one that was advertised as 154CM and that's also what it says on the blade. But it's the only one I've ever seen that didn't say ATS-34 in the specs.

Since they are the same steel, I'll take a guess that this "lot" (or a few lots) were made from US steel (154CM) and all the others (including current models) are being made from steel from Japan (ATS-34).

I won't comment about the burr. That's a mystery.

Thanks
 
154cm, ats34, vg10, cpms30v,...........who give a sh*t

anything from 1095 or 420HC and upwards is good to go.

close your eyes, turn around a few times, mix up the knives on the table/counter, and pick one

:D
 
Because CPM S30v rusts when it gets within 100 feet of water. :)

Actually, it might just be me, but 154CM seems to stain less easily then ATS-34, and S30v will begin to rust if any moisture is left on it.

Also, I wonder if the burr you're talking about has to do more with the factory edge angle?
 
ATS-34

They are equivalent in composition, but ATS-34 is vacuum melted (=purer) whereas 154CM is not.
 
dennis75 said:
154cm, ats34, vg10, cpms30v,...........who give a sh*t
anything from 1095 or 420HC and upwards is good to go.
close your eyes, turn around a few times, mix up the knives on the table/counter, and pick one
:D
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Not me. I know from experience that some steels work better for different types of applications. And those "butter" steels? You can have them. I don't like spending half my day sharpening (which I've done before). I don't even buy AUS-8A hardly anymore.

Regards
 
they are exactly the same steel, so it depends on the manufacturer, the finish and the heat treating method. The ATS-34 from Gerber is adequate but the 154CM from Camillus and Benchmade is way better.
 
bladeprince said:
If you had the choice of ATS-34 or 154-CM for the same knife, which would you choose and why? Assume both are heat treated to the same Rc 59.
Click to expand...

these 2 should be the same more or less. if i have to choose i choose RWL-34 because it will probably be tougher and cleaner
 
The average user really won't really take the time to figure out if a knife is better steel, especially if you add in different heat treats and the makers goal in RC hardness. But most of us aren't average here.

As for S30V rusting, it's a "Stain Less Steel," unlike 1095 - which isn't so available now, more like 1080. Point being, a knife blade staying sharp twice as long lasts twice as long, one you hand down to your children with a usable blade, not a rusted toothpick like granpa's old Case. Makes a difference.
 
If you look at the 'Maker' section you will find comments .At the present time the ATS-34 is dirty [ many non metallic inclusions] so makers are avoiding it and sticking to 154CM which apparently is vacuum melted . An even better choice at least for custom knives is CPM154 [the same recipe as 154CM but made by the CPM process].
 
enderwiggin said:
Because CPM S30v rusts when it gets within 100 feet of water. :)

Actually, it might just be me, but 154CM seems to stain less easily then ATS-34, and S30v will begin to rust if any moisture is left on it.

Also, I wonder if the burr you're talking about has to do more with the factory edge angle?
Click to expand...

Thank God I don't live within 100 feet of water! I haven't had any of those steels rust, even when carried IWB in 100+ F weather while working on lawn sprinkler systems.

Steel is a secondary factor for me when selecting a knife. If the same knife is available in different steels, my preference would be (in decending order) S30V, VG-10, ATS-34, 154CM, 440C, AUS 8 then everything else. I have no scientific data to support any of this, just field experience :D
 
Don't get me wrong, I know S30v was engineered for knifemaking. It holds one heck of an edge.

I was just surprised to see it show spots of rust start appearing on an S30v knife after it was rinsed clean with soap, wiped off and left open to completely dry. That hasn't happened to my 154CM or ATS-34 knives with the same circumstances.
 
I54CM is vacuum melted now? isn't it? There were some quality problems in the past, which is why it sort of dissapeared while ATS-34 took the spotlight, the quality has improved though which is why it's being used more. CPM-154 should be even better, hopefully it'll become the new standard.
 
I think we're seeing alot more 154CM because it's made here and the US. If you want to advertize "Made in the U.S.A." there are laws on the percentages of foriegn made materials allowed in your product. I understand that is why Buck went from ATS-34 to the 154CM.
 
Simply this - they boosted the quality of 154CM and lowered the quality of ATS-34 ! Really not hard to understand !
 
I would go with 154cm... I have had a couple Benchmades and 2 handmades in ats-34, and the current Benchmades and Microtechs that I have in 154 seem to hold an edge better, and are more resistant to chipping.
Just one man's humble opinion though.
David
 
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