Illegal to ship knives to NYS?

John G

John G

Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
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Recently I ordered a Condor Nessmuk from Knife Center. I've always wondered about the appeal and usefulness of this knife style, and at Condor's prices, I figured I'd take the plunge. Order submitted, I only had to wait by the mailbox. Or so I thought. :(

Here's the email I got from KnifeCenter.com:


Dear Customer,

We apologize for the inconvenience, but New York state law forbids us from shipping this type of item to your state. This situation is, obviously, beyond our control. We advise New York State residents to petition their elected officials to change their state laws in this regard. Your order has been canceled and your card was never charged. We want your business, but it will have to be for a different type of item. Again, we regret this circumstance and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

You can contact us at: KnifeCenter of the Internet5111 Berwyn Rd STE 110College Park, MD 20740United States
Toll Free: 1.800.338.6799
Local: 1.301.486.0901

Here's a picture of the knife in question.
condornessie.jpg


What's the problem? Is Knife Center wrong? Am I?
 
I ran into this problem recently too. Blame NYC's over-reaching DA. Don't know if it's illegal for them to ship here or not but as far as I am concerned I'm just one more lost customer to them.

Keep looking, there are still dealers who are happy to ship to legitimate knife users in NY.
 
Announcement: NEW YORK TRYING TO SCREW KNIFE DEALERS. Read and TAKE ACTION!!!
07-20-2010 Spark (HPIC)

Outrage: NYC DA Shakes Down Knife Retailers ( 1 2 3 4 5)
Critter

The District Attorney of New York County (Manhattan) extorted huge amounts of money from knife dealers in the city. Dealers elsewhere don't want to come near getting involved in legal action by a government, which has the city's tax money to back any action it takes against a businessman who can't afford to play that game.

So for now the largest dealers are the ones most at risk (the deepest pockets).

Read Spark's announcement and support Knife Rights.
 
Knifecenter is wrong, but it is their right to refuse sale to anyone.
That knife may be restricted in the city, but it is not in the rest of the state, of which NYC is only a small part. NYS state law does not restrict this Item.
 
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I live in Western NY, in the vicinity of Rochester. NYC's pocket knife nonsense does not apply here.

According to knifecenter's legal statement:
"New York state in particular has strict laws regarding our shipping products to their state. We do not ship locking folding knives, fixed blades or swords to New York State. We will ship our other products such as kitchen cutlery, flashlights, etc. This situation is beyond our control."

Fixed blades bad, kitchen cutlery good? :confused:

Oh well, I'll try Going Gear instead. :thumbup:
 
This is the reaction of several online dealers since no one knows what will considered a illegal knife in NYS right now. This is all the result of the NYC DA, but he is using the NYS law as his basis. The knife you posted seems totally legal to me.

Seems like since Camillius and other NYS knife companies went under, there has now been a push by NYC to go after knives that have been openly sold by major retailers since the 1958 law ( that has been unchanged since) went into effect. Would the law be enforced this way if it put NYS companies out of business?
 
The New York City District Attorney is encouraged to go after knives, because he shook down companies like Home Depot, Orvis, and five others for 1.9 million dollars. The companies that paid off rewarded the DA.

Thus encouraged, he claimed this was "only the beginning," and that they were now going after "out of state" dealers, and that he would "use the internet as an investigative tool."

He also said in his press conference that part of that 1.9 million was being set aside to be split among ANY COUNTY in New York State that would join him in this money grab. He is trying to take this state wide.

So you have a NYC DA who has announced he's going after knives, going after out of state dealers, and going after them through the internet. What would you have done other than what Knife Center did?

Knife Center has obviously taken a cautious course under these circumstances--as anyone would who did not want "test-case" after their name. They are not alone.

I will not ship a lockback knife into New York State should anyone win it in my current Knifemaking Legends auction. I would be happy to ship it to New Jersey, to a friend outside NY, or to a non-New York location.

If you are offended because someone takes a NYC DA at his word when he says he's going after knives I suggest your anger is misplaced, and that instead of being unhappy with a dealer who is being forced into this situation, that instead you focus your energies on being sure this NYC DA and those who support him are defeated in the next election.
 
John G said:
Recently I ordered a Condor Nessmuk from Knife Center. I've always wondered about the appeal and usefulness of this knife style, and at Condor's prices, I figured I'd take the plunge. Order submitted, I only had to wait by the mailbox. Or so I thought. :(

Here's the email I got from KnifeCenter.com:


Dear Customer,

We apologize for the inconvenience, but New York state law forbids us from shipping this type of item to your state. This situation is, obviously, beyond our control. We advise New York State residents to petition their elected officials to change their state laws in this regard. Your order has been canceled and your card was never charged. We want your business, but it will have to be for a different type of item. Again, we regret this circumstance and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

You can contact us at: KnifeCenter of the Internet5111 Berwyn Rd STE 110College Park, MD 20740United States
Toll Free: 1.800.338.6799
Local: 1.301.486.0901

Here's a picture of the knife in question.
condornessie.jpg


What's the problem? Is Knife Center wrong? Am I?
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Knife Center is just being paranoid. The knife that you ordered is a common hunting/outdoorsman's knife. It appears to have a single-edged, plain 4" to 5" blade and would be legal in every state to own. It it about the same size as my Cold Steel "Master Hunter".
 
Posted a half hour ago:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760500

Special Announcement
Dear Members,

Due to Laws currently in force in the State of New York Emerson Knives will no longer ship or sell knives to individuals who are residents of New York State.

Best Regards,

Ernest R. Emerson
Click to expand...

Like KnifeCenter, he has to protect his business. The best way to protect yourself from a predator is to avoid his territory.
 
These businessmen aren't guessing at the law. They have lawyers on call as a cost of doing business. What the Manhattan DA is doing is pushing the written sense of the law in unpredictable directions, which puts dealers at risk of very expensive legal action. They cannot afford to take that chance.

They also cannot afford to look over each knife order, compare it to NYS law or NYC law, and pray that the customer is not a straw buyer for the DA, who will overinterpret the law to their detriment.
 
The wording of the law, is such, that any locking knife that can be flicked open has been deemed a gravity knife. You could open ten new packs of the same knife and have five that can flick open and five that can't. I suspect that as Esav stated, they don't want to take the chance. The rest of NYS is still selling these knives openly as to date no one seems to being going along with this DA.
 
TennKnifeman said:
If you are offended because someone takes a NYC DA at his word when he says he's going after knives I suggest your anger is misplaced, and that instead of being unhappy with a dealer who is being forced into this situation, that instead you focus your energies on being sure this NYC DA and those who support him are defeated in the next election.
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I am neither offended nor angry. I don't know how you got that impression. Thanks for the info, though! :)

all this is is people getting extremely paranoid, and not bothering to learn the law itself.
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Agreed. It seems some retailers are going into extreme CYA mode.
 
You'll see this a lot as its better to err on the side of caution from the business stand point. Retailers will be lucky to even have the manufacturers ship to them now and some have already announced they will no longer ship knives to NY.

Illinois will be next if they have their way.

STR
 
The problem is whatever profit Knife Center or any other distributor might realize in selling/shipping knives into NYS could easily be wiped out by the cost of having to respond to litigation brought against them should a NYS district attorney decided they wanted to pursue the issue. The easy thing to do is just refuse sales from NYS residence until the situation is resolved.

It's a business decision that weighs the potential risk versus the rewards.
 
tom19176 said:
The wording of the law, is such, that any locking knife that can be flicked open has been deemed a gravity knife.
Click to expand...

Actually, the law does not say that, this is just their mis-interpretation of bthe law. We should be clear on that.

tom19176 said:
The rest of NYS is still selling these knives openly as to date no one seems to being going along with this DA.
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Actually, Ace Hardware has just issued a memo instructing all their co-op members/dealers in New York state to remove all one-hand opening knives from their shelves. The influence of Vance's actions is spreading.

Getting on a plane shortly, hope to see some of you at A.G. Russell's Knife Event this weekend.
 
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Doug, correct their view of the wording is what they are enfocing, but it is not correct. I did not mean to word it in a confusing way. Sorry to hear about ACE. I never saw any folders for sale at the ones I have been in in the past.
 
These knife makers have every reason to go to "extremes" to cover thier butts. the have families to support as well as employees. It is a sad situation we have permitted here in NY. It is shamefull and we have nothing to blame but our own apathy!
 
emptymag said:
These knife makers have every reason to go to "extremes" to cover thier butts. the have families to support as well as employees. It is a sad situation we have permitted here in NY. It is shamefull and we have nothing to blame but our own apathy!
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I think it's the sellers, not the makers at issue here, but either way your point is taken. :thumbup: Sure, I don't blame them. They can run their shops however they wish. Also, can spend my money where sellers have yet to panic. :)
 
John G said:
I think it's the sellers, not the makers at issue here, but either way your point is taken. :thumbup: Sure, I don't blame them. They can run their shops however they wish. Also, can spend my money where sellers have yet to panic. :)
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Best way to do that would be to combine a family road-trip vacation with some knife-buying outings!;)
 
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