I'm gonna need new sticks soon- what kind of wood?

Crayola

Crayola

Joined
Sep 23, 1999
Messages
3,831
Hello! I am hopign to get back into training here ASAP. One of my rattan sticks has pretty much bit the bullet. I was looking at the Kris Cutlery catalog the other day and noticed their rattan, purpleheart, kamagog (or somethign liek that) and another type of wood stick. Should I stick with good 'ol rattan being the "advanced" beginner I am (I only say advanced 'cuz I can do some nice drills still and I can appreciate the smell of rattan!) or should I get something a little denser? Thanks forumites!

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"Come What May..."
 
Crayola,
you should go to the url www.bloodsport.com
they are the suppliers for the dog brothers rattan and some of their hardwood sticks are on line also.. since you are still practicing, I would get a good sturdy pair of rattan to begin with and then get the heavier hardwood sticks. there is a big difference in the handling characteristics of the hardwood sticks due to weight and density.

Just my .02 Pesos

Bill
aka silat1
 
Ditto what Bill (aka Silat1), except that I'd get both if I had the $$ and here's why.

Kamagong sticks, being heavier would be a good supplement to your rattan sticks for solo work (go slow at first). The heavier stick acts as a sort of weight training and if your style uses "twirls" the heavier weight will "break down" your wrists faster to get your twirls up to speed. I also use a couple pairs of steel pipes (one is filled with sand and capped on both ends).

They're also beautiful and there's just something satisfying about swinging a kamagong stick. Personally, I would not use them for contact drills for the sake of your sticks (they aren't impervious) and partner.

I heard an expression once that "Rattan is for when you spar a friend, Bahi is for when you spar a stranger and Kamagong is for when you want to kill an enemy."

Nick (@ KIL-the bloodsport url) makes some great sticks and is a really nice guy to deal with!

Good luck in your choice of sticks and training!

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."
 
Wise words, my friends. I'll get the rattan when I need to retire my sticks, but I think saving up to get some heavier sticks is a good idea too. Thanks!!

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"Come What May..."
 
I agree with Dave Fulton. The heavy hardwood sticks are fine for conditioning, bag work, etc. However, when used for contact workouts, there are several drawbacks. First, if they break you can have a sharply splintered projectile flying across the room. As you know, rattan usually deteriorates more gradually and catastrophic failures aren't as common. Second, the hardwood sticks transmit a lot more shock to your hands (not as big a problem on a bag that gives). Fatigue can occur much more quickly. Third, if you use them against a partner's rattan sticks, they will destroy the rattan. For these reasons, they are not permitted for class use at the Inosanto Academy and a number of others.

That said, I have a bunch of hardwood sticks and enjoy using them within the parameters described above and by others. I especially like the Dymondwood, which is a laminate that has been infused with resin (something like epoxy, I guess) under heat and pressure. They are very heavy but almost impossible to break.

DPD.
 
Folks,

Tom Kier, a Sayoc Kali teacher, was kind enough to "pull my coat", and warn me that most hardwood sticks are dangerous when they break. Here is his post:

"Alan,

You should consider woods like Bahi, if you want a heavy dense wood for sticks. All woods that have a "normal" grain like most hardwoods can break and split, often the broken piece will be pointed and will fly like a projectile this can be deadly.

I have seen this in the past, and when I work heavy contact with sticks now, I only use rattan and bahi because they don't break in this manner.

Of course, if you are not banging sticks, it really does not matter.

Just something to consider.

Tom Kier
SAYOC KALI"


Got excellent service and fine rattan sticks (according to my friend who teaches FMA in Mexico and took all the sticks we bought) from Nick at Bloodsport. Prices were reasonable. Recommend him highly.


Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan Antopol (edited 06-08-2001).]
 
Allow me to second the previous post. We had a new student who was into exotic woods and made his own sticks out of some Brazilian hardwood that he claimed had some incredible toughness rating. During some high-velocity Sinawalli, his hardwood vesus good fire hardened rattan, one of his sticks shattered along the grain line. The broken end went whirling over my shoulder and stuck 4 inches deep into the drywall behind me!

We do not allow students to use hardwood sticks in the classroom other than for solo strength training. Rattan or bahi are it.
 
Second all that´s being said, I saw hickory and ash sticks break a few times, the broken parts went flying and reminded me of bamboo lances, wicked sharp. You don´t want that stuck into an eye or something like that. If you contact train with hardwood, you might want to consider applying hockey tape or something like that on the sticks, prevents broken off parts from flying.
Except for rattan, I use polyamide (PA) synthetic sticks sometimes in contact. They are heavier and have a very funny feeling to them if you´re used to rattan, but are virtually indestructible. But they eat rattan sticks for lunch, so ask your partner if the PA sticks are ok with him.
I also like to train (solo!) with crowbars, they make nice conditioning devices, and are interesting weapons.

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"Peace is not without conflict; it is the ability to cope with conflict" - Leo Giron

[This message has been edited by judge (edited 06-09-2001).]
 
Judge,

I've used pipes, but the crowbar idea is also interesting. Do you use crowbars with curved ends, like a crook top cane? Do you work cane techniques with them?

Thanks for any advice,

DPD.
 
I use Roughneck Gorillabar crowbars in 14" and 24" length. The 24" is quite heavy and more of a two-handed weapon, the smaller ones are quite controllable. The Gorillabars do have oval shafts which are useful for indexing the crowbars in your hand.
These got a rounded "L" shaped claw end (for removing nails) on one side and a slightly rounded chisel edge on the other side. You can hit with the rounded "knee" of the "L" side (blunt trauma), hit with the claw side of the "L" which is sharpened, this would produce wicked wounds for sure (I´ve deeeply cut the old tires of my practicing target, which is a very tough material to cut), or you can use the chisel end of the other side, especially for thrusting. I´m sure some hooking techniques would also work with the "L" shaped end, but I do usually train in more straightforward style (read: hit´em as hard as possible).

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"Peace is not without conflict; it is the ability to cope with conflict" - Leo Giron
 
I'd stick with rattan (KIL) and kamagong, though I had a mahogany stick that lasted over a year but it was 1 1/4" thick.

I've seen kamagong break and it took some serious swinging to do it. The crowbar/bar/whatever idea is good and I have some success with a cane. After playing with a cane, my 32" kamagong felt lighter.
 
Hey Y'all,

Just wondering if anyone had any experience with Bladerigger sticks (coated rattan)? Just wondering what they "feel" like and if they are worth the cost. I have a stick bag by Bladerigger and am very happy with it.

I have gone through several pairs of hardwood sticks (taped up 1" diameter dowel rods). I, also, have found that they tear up rattan sticks, last for a long time, and eventually do splinter/split. Use of tape on the hitting area of your sticks also creates a different "feel" (usually making contact "stickier") when hitting other sticks. Metal on metal (e.g. ASPs) is very "slippery". I have a pair of 1" diameter clear polycarbonate sticks (lynn@konradyplastics.com); they have a good heft to them, are "slippery", and, so far, have been unbreakable. On the negative side, unless you modify the grip, the naked polycarbonate is pretty slippery and they exhibit more "reverb" than any other rigid stick that I've swung.

I think it may have been addressed already, but I was wondering what everyone thought were the best training sticks/batons. The foam rubber/hollow PVC pipe sticks from I&I don't last very long at all. Guro Inosanto sells the fabric covered padded rattan sticks (I think they're Lameco); are those any good? Some of the practice sticks/batons that I've seen online don't leave you much room on the grip to have a punyo.

Thanks.

 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Samuel:
I think it may have been addressed already, but I was wondering what everyone thought were the best training sticks/batons. The foam rubber/hollow PVC pipe sticks from I&I don't last very long at all. Guro Inosanto sells the fabric covered padded rattan sticks (I think they're Lameco); are those any good? Some of the practice sticks/batons that I've seen online don't leave you much room on the grip to have a punyo. </font>
Click to expand...

The best "practice sticks" by far are made of heavy rattan and Kombat Instruments Limited (aka KIL) makes the best I've seen to date and for a reasonable price. Nick is also a great guy to do business with. Check out their website at:

www.bloodsport.com/

I'd recommend a synthetic stick like Delrin or Polycarbonate for practicing on a tire dummy or similar devices because they are tough on rattan. This is where I think the toughness of the synthetic sticks shines. There was another thread pretty recently where the pro's & con's of synthetic sticks were discussed. A quick search on this forum should find it.

However, for contact training with a partner, there is no really good substitute for rattan in my opinion. Besides, there's something satisfying about coming out of a high speed drill when you're winded & sweaty and then, you catch the scent of the burning rattan.
biggrin.gif


Respectfully,

Dave Fulton




------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 06-14-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 06-14-2001).]
 
With regard to padded training sticks, Guro Inosanto also uses the Actionflex products and likes them quite a bit. I have ordered a lot from Actionflex and they are great people to deal with. Check out their website.

DPD.


 
Boomer Brothers Batons offers it in lengths up to 50 inches. They make walking sticks, training swords, and other items (as well as Eskrima sticks). I have several of their products and they are very well made. One of the guys is a cop and the other an EMT---very honest and pleasant to deal with.

My last phone no. for them was 626-287-0288. Last address was P.O. Box 1495, Temple City, CA 91780. Tell them that Dave from the Inosanto Academy says hello.

Good luck,

DPD.
 
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