I'm not able to get my latest GEC's sharp!

[sogflash]

I have a "first world problem" here. After getting a couple of new GEC's I'm not able to get them as sharp as I want. I've sharpened other GEC knives before and now without trouble, but I'm not able to get the new ones sharp. They have 1095 blade steel.

It's frustrating seeing the blade shrinking by sharpening, but no good edge forming. I've used the same benchstones as I've had success with before.

Do you have any (comforting) words or tips? What angle should I try to go for? If someone has the time to take a picture showing how to lay the blade against the stone for the right angle I'll really appreciate it.

I'll just stay away from sharpening for a few days and see if it gets better then.

 

[Gary W. Graley]

It's always disheartening to not get an adequate edge on any blade.

It might help us to know which one is giving you fits?

Sounds like you've had success before, I try to remove as little metal as possible, hoping to extend the life of the knife of course, so very little time is spent on the coarse stone, but you do need to get the apex made before moving to the next grit.

Now I've recently changed methods and I find it works pretty well and is not too hard to do. I use to sharpen as if I were taking a slice off the stone, now, I basically reversed that and pull the blade backwards, stropping the edge, starting with the point and moving across and at an angle to the stone, with the blade's spine just a penny thickness or so above the stone surface, it depends on how thin things are, unfortunately that is a feel you get as you do it.

Then I flip the knife over and strop the opposite direction. I think you can hold the knife steadier in doing this, than trying to push the edge into the stone, as you are fighting the stone in that direction and there can be some excess wobble and cause you to get the bevel not quite flat.

I'll try to take some photos of this and see if that helps you. I do hold stone in my left hand and knife in my right, so I can FEEL each part and know if things are wobbling, just easier to control for me.

G2

 

[Gary W. Graley]

Well here's a pictorial of what I was trying to say above, using my GEC #79 Montana Workhorse in canvas micarta scales...

Kinda hard to shoot and demonstrate at the same time so pardon these shots...
I have some nice slip stones by Norton, they are tear drop in shape, when I need to remove a lot of metal, initial sharpening, I'll use the rounded corners to be more aggressive in getting the initial bevel set and then move to the flat portion of the stones. I have the coarse, medium and fine india shown here, then I go to the Spyderco Double stuff ceramic stone and finally onto a leather strop. The images below would be similar in action against the others as well.

Start with the tip on the stone, spine is raised up slightly, we don't want to scratch that main flats of the knife! ALSO what isn't shown here is that I will have my right index finger pressing down on the top side of the blade's side, that way I'm not putting undue stress against the pivot in the knife handle, less chance of making the knife become loose that way...since I was 'mock' sharpening, I didn't have my index finger on the blade, noticed it afterwards, it's one bit of info I think is important. In my previous method I would use my left hand on the spine of the knife to guide me as I pushed against the stone, so that also protected the pivot point of the blade, but, I use this method pretty much all the time now with great results!

As you progress to the stones, you want to make sure you get to where you feel a burr raised on the opposite side, you can feel that, but if it seems you can't feel it, it might be that there is a facet in the blades bevel that you haven't overcome yet. As most knives are done on belt sanders or motorized devices they can get some waveiness in their bevel. Tilt the blade towards a light, let the light play along the flats of the edge bevel, turn it slowly and it should just go to the edge, if you see ANOTHER flash of light, it means there is a facet there you haven't really touched yet.

Hope that all makes sense,
G2

 

[sogflash]

Thank you for the pictures. It's a eureka jack and a cody scout I can't get sharp.

 

[Gary W. Graley]

The smaller coping blades can be tricky, being small, but the spear point of the Eureka...one I may get one day!...should be similar to the Montana Workhorse and should sharpen up well.

Another thing would be if the blades seem like they have metal removed TOO easily, indicating possibly of a heat treat problem, I can tell that more from the white ceramic stones as more metal is smeared on there when the steel isn't very high in Rockwell hardness.

I'd also suggest practicing on a lesser knife to get these actions into muscle memory, it'll save you grief down the road
G2

 

[pinnah]

Lansky -> consistency.

 

[gunstockjack]

After stoning, don't forget to strop to remove any wire edge. A wire edge (the thin strip of metal remaining along the edge after stoning) will make your knife seem dull as heck, when actually you just need to get it off. I use a cedar 2X4 on edge with a piece of leather glued on top and charged with polishing compound. Once you have established an edge it is easy to maintain by stropping.

 

[kamagong]

Very smart of you to walk away from the stones for a while. I also had some trouble with my initial sharpening on my clip point Charlow. Instead of taking a break I let my frustration get the best of me. There is a slight recurve near the choil now.

- Christian

 

[hunterjrg]

Thank you for the pictures. It's a eureka jack and a cody scout I can't get sharp.

Getting the tip of that eureka jack sharp is a bit tricky

 

[Gary W. Graley]

Yep Pinnah, Lansky/EdgePro/WickedEdge/Sharpmaker are all fine things as free hand sharpening isn't for everyone that's for sure, key things to look for will still be true even using other methods, looking to get the entire edge bevel even, for me, is the first thing to get set and then progress on to finer stones and as Barry made mention a strop to finish it off.

Similar methods on the stones as with the strop, you want to make sure you raise the knife off the stone or strop before turning it over to do the other side, so you don't inadvertently roll the edge you are trying to make.

I've owned many a sharpening system through the years, which my wallet can attest but I seem to gravitate back to free hand sharpening. You can also hand hold the larger stones and do as I'm showing in those photos too, just a bit more weight.

I also use my EdgePro stones in a similar manner, kinda stretches my hand to grip, as they are longer! but the finer grits are helpful sometimes.

The old saying " How do you get to Carnegie Hall ? " the answer " Practice, practice, practice"
G2

 

[Gary W. Graley]

Getting the tip of that eureka jack sharp is a bit tricky

Indeed, the tips of the spear points seem thicker well it would be as now the tip is near the middle of the blade which is thicker so the bevel will be a little steeper, here's where Free hand sharpening helps as you can shift slightly to make this change, otherwise you can thin down that tip too much, making it a little fragile.

The 3 blade Montana Workhorse had to have a lot of work to get the tip area sharpened up nicely, with out broadening the bevel too much.
G2

 

[sogflash]

Very smart of you to walk away from the stones for a while. I also had some trouble with my initial sharpening on my clip point Charlow. Instead of taking a break I let my frustration get the best of me. There is a slight recurve near the choil now.

- Christian

I walked away to late. Removed more metal than I should. It's unbelievably annoying to know you've done such damage to a new nice knife.

 

[Gary W. Graley]

Ouch, well if it's down to the thicker part of the blade already, you might want to seek help from a local knife maker/bladesmith and see if they can help get the blade thinned down again so you don't end up with a thick edge bevel.

That is one thing that's nice about most of the GEC knives, they are flat ground, worse case you could get some sand paper and lay the knife flat on that and drag it across to get the blade thinned down again and then work on the edge, use progressive grit sand paper 100, 220, 320, 400, 600 and higher if you want, but it's not too hard to do, tape the sheet down, you can rotate the sheet to use up all the sides.

BUT, if there is someone not far away that is a cutler by trade, you might want to seek him/her first!

Best luck with getting that back into shape! can you get a photo of it's present condition?
G2

 

[pinnah]

Gary, I'm convinced the Lansky is what allowed me to progress with freehand.

Stay with me on this... In a former life, I taught Alpine (downhill) skiing. Now, I do Telemark skiing which is sort of like skiing downhill on heavy duty cross-country skis. Like cross-country, you're heels aren't locked down and it's either super satisfying or an endless comedy of errors due to the resulting lack of control. When people ask me how to learn, I tell them to take downhill lessons first. It's easier to learn the basics with the extra support.

I struggled with freehand sharpening and eventually just gave up. Couldn't figure it out. A few years ago a buddy loaned me his Lansky. It taught me a feel for the burr and how to use different angles for different steels and uses. More than anything, I think it taught me a feel for sharpening.

When I want to put a good edge on a knife, I still go for the Lansky. But my abilities free hand have made leaps and bounds.

 

[avoidspam]

I personally use the mousemat method to re-profile and sharpen all my knives (lot's of Youtube tutorials out there...) which is more forgiving than stones. You'll find the blade tips tricky, particularly on GEC's spear points as they tend to get the bevel's a touch uneven at this point.

Sam

 

[Campbellclanman]

Interesting - Thank you Gary for being so helpful not only helping the op, but all of us as well.
I too are up and down in my sharpening, I have lots to learn, I have fairly good success, but there are nights when I could tear my hair out because I simply don't get them hair popping like I cam other times!
I tend to push my blade instead of drawing it too me on the stones, that way I have more control and keep the sharpening line nice and even, I ten to loose control of that if drawing it to me.
I have my strop on a thick piece of wood, and when I finish stoning with either my Arkansas fine, or my diamond fine/very fine I slice my blade through a full cut into the wood to remove any burr before I strop ( in which I still need to perfect my technique ). Strop lightly, too much pressure will reverse the effect and blunten the blade.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

you want to make sure you get to where you feel a burr raised on the opposite side, you can feel that, but if it seems you can't feel it, it might be that there is a facet in the blades bevel that you haven't overcome yet. As most knives are done on belt sanders or motorized devices they can get some waveiness in their bevel. Tilt the blade towards a light, let the light play along the flats of the edge bevel, turn it slowly and it should just go to the edge, if you see ANOTHER flash of light, it means there is a facet there you haven't really touched yet.

This can take a lot of work to overcome.

 

[pmew]

Thank you for the pictures. It's a eureka jack and a cody scout I can't get sharp.

I just got a new Eureka myself and had a similar issue. It came pretty sharp in the first place (not used to that from GEC) but I wanted it to my satisfaction and the coping blade is now a scalpel, but I couldn't get the spear right. Took me a while to notice a very slight recurve, and because I use oil stones it wasn't working. But since I worked that out its been fine.
Paul

 

[Gary W. Graley]

Thanks guys, it's the old "many ways to skin a cat" thing lots of systems, lots of methods, and as pinnah remarked Consistency is the major factor.

A couple more things regarding sharpening, at least the way I'm working it now, Tim Wright told me to not use oil on my stones, just sharpen dry, then clean off the stones with lighter fluid, it works amazingly well, these are the Norton type oil stones, for ceramics I use household cleanser such as Ajax or Comet to make the ceramics clear again of metal particles.

Now, again, just me and how I used to do it compared to now, no matter how careful I was, I'd get some tell tale abrasion marks on the side of the blade, from either where I'm gripping the blade as I move across the stones or some of the loose grit on the stone itself, even when I tape the blade, some grit would work it's way in there, very frustrating.

This new way, seems to be mark free, holding the stone as I do any extra grit falls off, doesn't build up on the surface of the stone. Here's a crop from one of the above photos also turned it side ways to help make it more viewer friendly, but you can see how evenly the bevel is on this edge, it's razor sharp and can slice toilet paper, for those times when I don't need an entire square

But as said, some people can be sharpening challenged, just not in their blood, not a bad thing, which is why there are several nice systems for people to use. As one fellow on here jackknife has a cool video of sharpening a knife using the bottom of a cup, piece of rock, piece of brick, things found in a parking lot, you name it, I imagine he could take dull to sharp with about any thing that will abrade metal, which is the end result. If you haven't seen it, you guys should give it a look see.

and, just to let you know, every time, when I get a new knife and I know it needs to be sharpened, I cringe you'd think I wouldn't, but I approach the task with trepidation as ANY thing could happen, even the most careful person can slip and scar the part you don't want marred, but afterwards when things have settled down, nerves relaxed and the edge is approaching final stropping, it's very therapeutic to have taken the knife to that point...

G2

 

[kamagong]

Misery loves company so you should enjoy this one. Here's a Charlow whose useful life was shortened by my impatience.

As you can see the blade profile is narrower than on a new one. Hard to believe that I've only had it for little over a month. Oh well, it cuts much better now.

- Christian