I'm not sure where to start or what I'm looking for...

[ThomsT]

I do a lot of car camping with friends or in my back yard. It's been a long time since I've done any backpacking, I want to get back into it. Some of it will be by myself and some of it will be with my son who's 12. We pretty much need everything. I found this website while trying to find reviews on some SOG branded holiday gift sets.
What I'm trying to find out is the following: 1) Aside from a 12 dollar hatchet that I bought at wally world and a couple of cheap knives, what is the best to buy for cutting up wood while backpacking a hatchet or a tomahawk? 2) For myself and for him what is a good multipurpose knife to buy that has a 4 to 6 inch blade and can be used for food prep, making kindling, carving or whittling. After having read some of the forums, I did see some people suggested Moras. 3) What is a good size for a saw or machete while out backpacking? 4) What type of survival knife is preferred if a person actually had to use one while out on the trail? 5) What are some of the better brands that are on the market and what are some of the brands to stay away from? My budget for the items for now is between 15-40 dollars an item.

Thanks in advance for any help or thoughts on this.

 

[22-rimfire]

Since there is no budget or even serious preferences, I will suggest a few inexpensive knives to consider that are frequently mentioned.

Folding Knife: Victorinox SAK of your choice. I like the 111mm SAKs the best (large size) and prefer the Adventurer model which is a simple two layer knife with basic tools with the little slide lock which seems to work well and easy to use. Many like the Farmer which has the small but effective saw blade. The Tinker is a favorite. There are many choices....

The commonly recommended <$50 are good choices; Kabar Dozier Hunter folder ($18), Kershaw Skyline or Ontario RAT-1 (folder).. $30-$40. Opinel knives, which I have no experience with. I would rather have a lock back than a liner lock folder personally and like the Kabar Dozier.

Spyderco Native, more but worth it.

Fixed Blade: General purpose > Kabar Becker BK-16 or BK-17 (my current favorites), or BK-10, ESEE 3 or ESEE4. Mora Companion inexpensive and good for slicing or a light general purpose blade. I prefer BK-16.
Choppers: Medium size BK-7 or ESEE6, Condor Hudson Bay, or larger BK-9.
Short heavy machetes, they work well. My favorites Condor Pack Golok or Condor Village Parang. I lean toward these for a car camp chopper or if you know you are going to do some more serious chopping on the trail. Otherwise, stick with a smaller blade. You don't really need to do much chopping in real life on the trail.

Hatchet: Estwing, hard to go wrong with this choice.

The SOG Field Pup is not a bad little fixed blade, but the sheath isn't great last time I bought one. SOG Seal Pup Elite... good strong knife that can take a lot of use. Cold Steel... no recommendations, but many like them.

Added: Just saw your budget range.... all the fixed blades I suggested exceed this except the Mora and SOG Field Pup. The folders are solid suggestions to consider. The Buck 110 also fits into your price range for a large folder (belt pouch). Look at the Condor line... the Kephart is a nice small fixed blade, but to me it feels more like a steak knife. Feel the same way about Moras that I have handled. Generally the Condor line starts at about $50 or there abouts. But they provide an excellent leather sheath for the machetes which is probably worth $20-$30 by itself (at least) if you compare to what the custom makers so. The BK-16 runs a little more than your budget, but I think it's worth the extra dollars as most love these knives.

 

[AddictedToGear]

For the saw look for a folding saw. The Sawvivor is a good one and so is the Bahco Laplander. For weight a hatchet is good, but usually a good sized fixed blade is better if you are already taking a saw. This way you can baton would and have other uses. I prefer a 8-10 inch blade for batoning, but you can baton with smaller fixed blades as well. For this I would recommend a Becker or a Esee. A small fixed blade for your price range a SOG field pup would work, but is not my first choice, but you have to make your budget work.

 

[Cap’n Smudge]

Good knives around your price range - check out the Becker knives. BK&T (Becker knife & tool) are a great value. Tomars kabars is a reputable dealer http://www.tomarskabars.com/Becker_Knives_P2.html.
For hiking I would lessen the amount of overall gear you are carrying. You shouldn't need a hatchet, food prep knife, hard use knife and a machete. I would carry something like a BK15, 16, or 17 and a BK9. I always carry a multitool in my pack - usually just a Swiss Army knife.

 

[tirod3]

Simple 4-5 inch full flat grind knives are all you need camping, their most important job will be prepping food. For a general purpose knife for ready access, any quality drop point folder will do the job. Choose a lock based on your skill level. Otherwise, just be careful.

If most of your camping is in hardwood forestland, the tomahawk would be preferred. Keep it light, it doesn't need a hammer head, a spike can go a long way prying out roots and rocks to keep a tent floor or your sleeping layout comfortable. It's main purpose will be chopping the existing deadwood for expedient campfires. A 16" handle with sharp light head makes it weigh less than 2 pounds and it will fit into a back pack.

Some use a machete in the same circumstances, they were originally meant for tropical use on soft vegetation and don't do that well against hardwoods. But, since they are still in use in primitive areas they have a reputation. The hawk did in it's day, it was the preferred tool by those living off the land in temperate zones where winter has an impact on the vegetation. When Europeans introduced it to native Americans they immediately saw the advantages and adopted it. And, as in a lot of European cultures, it became a token of rank, too.

Tomahawks aren't usually found in hardware stores, they sell construction hatchets with short handles and heavy heads. The common one available - on display at the local bigbox this holiday season - will do as a starter and is certainly economical.

Saws are often recommended, too, I've tried them, the point being I don't need to make precise flat cuts on wood. I'm just chopping it to throw on a fire, and the less work the better. Saws don't dig up roots or move rock well, my vision of prepping a campground has more dirt work involved than a saw or machete can perform. With a spike hawk trenching can be done around tents to drain off excess rain water, and in a bad situation it can be used as a form of ice axe for personal support or self arrest on a slippery slope.

It's not used in our culture as much as it was 100 years ago, we have relegated it to being a primitive mans tool, while we are supposed to be more enlightened and have less impact on the land. Our parents also wouldn't let us handle them as they are tools meant for adults. They take some time to acquire new skills in use - just like any tool. Don't get all medieval with them, any edged tool can bite you.

 

[dogstar]

Welcome to BF. You have received lots of good advice so far. Here is my take:

It sounds like you are thinking of bringing all but the kitchen sink. Backpacking is better when you don't feel like a beast of burden. As often said, the more you know, the less you carry. Responses to your queries:

1) Hatchet is better than hawk for wood processing. Fiskars and Husqvarna are decent in your price range. You can do lots with a hatchet, more than just chop wood. Just do some research.

2) Mora is the ticket for a 4" knife, as long as you don't go crazy and bash it into pieces.

3) For backpacking, I think a folding saw is best. Silky or Bahco are popular here.

4) See #2. If you go up to 6", it is a jack of all trades, master of none. Over 8" and it's a heavy sucker.

5) Great values: Victorinox, Opinel, Mora. Most folks don't like Gerber here, but every brand has its fan.

My friend has traversed most of the Pacific Crest Trail; he only carries an SAK. He never makes a fire, much less uses a stove. For modern backpacking, a simple folder will do. I would add a hatchet to that if I wanted to get all bushcrafty. Going up another level, I'd add a folding saw, but you don't need perfectly sectioned pieces of wood; the fire doesn't care. Contrary to what most think, you don't need cleanly sawed pieces of wood to split with an axe, either. Most old timers gather wood, snap it in half across their knee, or use a rock or trees, or let the fire section the wood for them.

I'm not a fan of big choppers, so I won't go there. Plenty of folks on BF are, so you'll get their take, too.

 

[Barrabas]

Thoms,

You will get a lot of varying perspectives and advice on this .

Sounds like you have done some camping in the past, so let me ask you..What did you use then, and did it meet your needs while in the field?
If you haven't used an item before, or knew you needed it, but didn't have it before..keep that in mind.

All that being said, my suggestion would be to concentrate your cash on where you have proven needs before while in the woods:

1) Get a good quality full tang fixed blade, and forget the Saw for now (chances are you will not even touch your saw unless you are going to be a mountain man, and build a house while your there) This way you an increase your budget to $80 for your knife..something you know you will need, or have strong potential to need repeatedly..Full tang provides more strength of construction/reliability in the event you have to use it hard / baton / prying etc.
22 Rimfire had good suggestions above, but there are myriad options.
For your budget, I'd suggest taking a hard look at Esee knives, good steel, ergonomics, outstanding warranty and great sheath included.

2) Unless your current hatchet is unreliable, keep it sharp, and spend what's allotted for that on a quality multitool/Leatherman charge is outstanding + it has a saw (but just about all reputable multitools do), and you'll reach for the pliers a hundred times getting hot pot handles off the fire..you'll never camp again without one.

3) Buy a Mora Robust for your Son to use on the trip, and you'll enjoy it yourself.

4) Get a small, or make a small emergency kit/bandages etc..a must for outings, and you can keep it for years to come, and restock as needed.

An old friend gave me the following advice, and it has proven wisdom.."Each time you camp, keep a note on what gear you didn't need, didn't use or wish you would have had so you can adjust for the next outing."

Peace, good luck, and Happy Thanksgiving..
As was said before, Welcome to the Forum.

B

 

[Cereal_killer]

I would highly recommend a fiskars brand hatchet (they come from as small as 7" all the way to full size splitting axe) and are under $40 (with smaller hatchets being much cheaper). I have an X11 and started with an X7 I gave to a friend, very good value, and they come in a really neat little carying sheath with molded carrying handle.

 

[gadunz]

DFB100W-5 Wombat - Heavy duty bush knife $176.00
12.5cm D2 tool steel, 4.5mm thick blade, brass bolster, wooden handle, 25cm overall
http://www.deweyknives.com.au/index.html

(UGP2) Utility General Purpose 4 3/4 "

(870BB) General Purpose 6 1/4 "
http://www.svord.com/

 

[ThomsT]

I've done a lot of camping over the years. I was involved in Boy Scouts and I'm an Eagle Scout. I haven't really looked at knives up until this point. I don't want to get caught in the back country somewhere and now have the very basics of necessities. While I can do flint knapping, that takes a lot of time to produce knife blades and really not something I care to do unless I absolutely had to. Some of the your guys suggestions will allow me to move money around as the budget for knives was set at 40 dollars max per item, give or take.
I've seen the prices on the saws that were suggested, I wish I had known about that before. I've purchased 3 bow saws from stores and all three broke over time. For what I paid for those pieces of junk, I could have purchased one of the folding saws that was suggested. We do camp in a lot of places where whole trees lay on the ground. The biggest reason for the hatchet/tomahawk was for defense from a wild or rabid animal and possibly other people who are up to no good.
I really appreciate the help from you guys. It's given me a place to start looking for what we'll need.

 

[22-rimfire]

I know tomahawks are a "thing" these days. For a defensive tool, I can see their value. But I can't see chopping down trees, but maybe one tree, camping. I can't see using one to process wood unless that is all you have and I frankly seldom ever processed wood anyway other than for something to do and for fun. The folding saws work pretty well, but they still aren't a chain saw and I don't consider them as good as a bow saw except for small applications. It comes down to tool choices for car camping versus backpacking and their functionality. I might even take a chain saw along car camping.

I think tomahawks are kind of cool actually, but for the life of me I could never see a practical application for me other than to buy one just to buy one. Defensive use is not high on my list since I will usually have a firearm with me.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I'm honestly surprised by how many people are telling you not to get a saw. Personally, I find a saw to be a vastly more efficient tool than a tomahawk or hatchet for cutting wood. Chopping can be fun, but it's a workout and can be risky if it's dark or you're already tired. I love hatchets and tomahawks because of the versatility you get, but if firewood is your concern then absolutely bring a saw.

 

[dogstar]

You can do wood processing with a hawk. It is not as efficient as an axe, but it's not uncomfortable either. The trick is to hit wood along the side, instead of trying to split from up top like with a splitting maul.

 

[22-rimfire]

With downed timber being available, a saw is the way to go. Folding if you want to carry it, or something a little less portable if you are car camping. Colder weather camping is where a fire becomes much more important and a saw allows you to cut up useable pieces to use in an orderly fashion with a fire. Otherwise you are burning off the poritons of a log and then sliding the larger tree end into the fire as you go along. At least that's how I do it. It does make for a messy campsite. Usually not a big deal to me.