Im thinking about up-cycling. Any thoughts?

S

SURVIVAL&WEAPONS

Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
647
I found some "blades" today at my uncles friends house. I believe they were blades on the bottom of a lawnmower. The tip is curved, and its about a quarter inch thick of what i believe is steel. It has rust all over. It has a saber grind but no secondary bevel. Getting to the point: I want to up-cycle them into knives; mostly because they are already in the form of one its about 40% to a completed knife. Does anyone have any experience with this situation? And tips, recommendations, or insight is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

P.s. Sorry if this is out of place; i thought it would fit in more in the knife makers discussion instead of the general knife discussion area.
 
Forget about it unless you just have time to waste. Lawnmower blades don't even make very good lawnmower blades much less knives.

If you want to make knives, start with steel of a known alloy.
 
Lawnmower blades almost always have a chisel grind. They should have a hope in the middle if they are. They are made from lower carbon steel and are soft. They are designed to bend instead of chip or split as the metal breaking while spinning would be a bad thing.

+1 for scrapping them and buying known steel.

-Eric
 
Lawnmower blades are made of low quality soft steel that won't break with the first rock you hit.
Despite that, there are Youtube videos of folks that want to try.


No up cycle, but you can recycle

Steel is the most recycled material in the world.

Get all you can for free, it's worth 10 cents per pound.
While you're at it, do aluminum, brass and copper too.


Take that cash and buy a good quality known steel.

Enough info here to successfully make a good knife is you learn and do it.
 
The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V32

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than a 60 year old machinist
We have members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or helpful neighbour.
Please join our community and fill out your profile with location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment and hobbies so we get a sense of where and who you are.

Look at the threads stuck to the top of the page.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3622507/Jones-Scott-Jonesy-Absolute-Cheapskate-Way-to-Start-Making-Knives


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/cache/articles/nw1/scales1.htm

Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive.

Knife Design:
Think thin. Forget swords, saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Look at hundreds of photos

Start with a drawing and show us, we love to comment on photos.
French curves, graph paper and an eraser are vital tools.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1147466-How?p=13120810#post13120810

Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such.
Use playdough to shape a comfortable handle, good handles are not flat.

How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns in a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - A modern book with colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now if you prefer paper books

The $50 knife Shop-not recommended
This book has a great title, but is NOT gospel. It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench BS, Even back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for some steels like 1084.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spike, start with a new known steel.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply, and quench in Canola.

Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders free plans are now on the web.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too - spend some time searching.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

See a list of videos for rent and read the reviews, Some are good, some bad, expect to wait weeks or months

http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Nick Wheeler- Hand sanding 101 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I4x4QLpfnk

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 or CPM-s35vn and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.



Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
The best explanation and classification oil speeds I've seen
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084

Brine and water are cheap, and technically correct for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095 but a fast oil like Parks 50 or Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades
If you use water or brine, expect to hear a "tink" and have a cracked or broken blade

Glue – Epoxy
Use a new package of slow setting 30 min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and seal out moisture.
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean and no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Don't over clamp it. Avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
Use:
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ#t=330

Grinders
A professional three or four wheel 2x72 is worth it
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.metalwebnews.com/manuals/knife-grinder.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
You may find them cheaper at other retailers and on Ebay direct from china.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html

VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.

The 1.5 HP combination is the most common, as reported by Rob Frink
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can burnout the unit.
It has good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Goggle "Ed Caffrey lung cancer"
Wearing a mask on the top of your head doesn't count.

The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching

This Google page searches BF
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Can I get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504

V32 Jan 27, 2014 Nick Wheeler hand sanding 101 added


Countavatar.jpg
 
Why can't we bring back the popularity of reel mowers. Now those were REAL MOWERS! With mower blades that actually worked.

10 out of 10 golf courses can't be wrong!

-Eric
 
Since you are into 'prepping' and not professional knife making I will approach this from a different angle. You can certainly make a servicable (but relatively poor) tool out of your mower blade. Some skills you can build while doing this task might be smithing, metal working, forge building and basic metalurgy. from a prepping/survivalist standpoint, read the stickies and have a go at it. The end product will be a tool that would be the talk of the village during the dark ages. Your final product will be tough but soft, needing frequent sharpening. I'd suggest that you go beyond a knife and try other tools.
 
Following on what Bo said -- if what you want is a high-quality knife, you should move on to better materials.

But if you want to experiment with your metal working skills, and maybe wind up with a homemade survival tool, or an inexpensive shop knife, or maybe it doesn't work out and you just toss it, well, nothing wrong with tinkering. I have some old hedge clippers on a shelf in my shop waiting for dead time to do just that. I don't expect something nice, I expect to amuse myself and maybe practice my skills a bit.
 
I have been known to waste my time on dumb things before. However, my time is so valuable now, I would rather practice and develop my skills on real steel rather than unknown steel, just in case a blind pig finds a mushroom and something serviceable comes out of it.
 
If you're going to proceed experimenting and fooling around with that steel you might want to see if it will harden. Heat it up bright red so that it becomes non magnetic and quench it in water. Then see if it will break. If you can't get it hard you might not want to waste anymore time playing with it. :D
 
tryppyr said:
"Up-cycling"? I've never encountered that expression before.
Click to expand...

It's basically taking something that is/could be trash and making it into something better more useful basically.

As to the original poster just like everyone has already said, forget it as a functional knife use a known steel that you know will be a functional knife when it's done. Unless you don't mind making knives that will just sit on display and likely never perform much better than something you can buy for a few bucks at a flea market stamped "china" or "Pakistan" on the blade.
 
My father believes that they are the blades from a rototiller; maybe its tool steel perhaps? I cant say for-sure but with the only heating being done to the blade to flatten it, i sharpened it and it cut para-cord and newspaper and still is holding an edge.. It is taking a lot of time and material from the grinding wheels to remove metal to shape the blade. I started a second model, a drop-point. Either way i'm getting some good metal working experience from this and that's always a plus. If only i had a paid membership to show you what it started as and what it now is.
 
SURVIVAL&WEAPONS said:
My father believes that they are the blades from a rototiller; maybe its tool steel perhaps?
Click to expand...

Not likely. Most likely it is a low carbon steel of some sort. Not a steel that can be hardened. They make stuff like that so it can hit rocks and hard roots without chipping.

I cant say for-sure but with the only heating being done to the blade to flatten it, i sharpened it and it cut para-cord and newspaper and still is holding an edge.. It is taking a lot of time and material from the grinding wheels to remove metal to shape the blade.
Click to expand...

If the steel happened to be a hardened tool steel, which I really very much doubt, and if you in fact got the steel hot enough to hot bend it, you would have ruined any heat treatment it had by getting the steel that hot. Mild steel will take an edge and cut paracord and newspaper.

I started a second model, a drop-point. Either way i'm getting some good metal working experience from this and that's always a plus. If only i had a paid membership to show you what it started as and what it now is.
Click to expand...

You can post pictures to picassa, image shack, flikr, anywhere like that, then copy the picture url link and use the insert image tag to post pictures here as a basic member.

As far as good metal working experience, I don't know. If you're having fun, I guess it's good. If you're wanting to learn the right way, not really. Please, please, please read the stickies. I know it's boring, but you'll understand so much more about the process when you're done. You're at the age that if you started correctly, you could be really good by the time you're 25. But doing it your way is starting behind the eight ball.



I know you're excited and want to go go go. I'll bet every one of the guys here used to be your age and remembers how exciting it was. However, let us temper your excitement with some experience. If you learn the wrong way of doing something, is hard to unlearn it. I don't want to come off as a buzz kill or an ass, but that's the reality of it. If you really like making knives, and it looks like you do, study the process. You owe it to yourself to do the best job you can, but it takes work. I'll bet if your folks saw you really take an interest in this, and really study it, they'd help you buy a piece of 1080 or 1084 and some files and sandpaper and other stuff to get started the right way.

That's all I have. Not trying to be an ass. Hope you don't take it that way.
 
medicevans said:
Not likely. Most likely it is a low carbon steel of some sort. Not a steel that can be hardened. They make stuff like that so it can hit rocks and hard roots without chipping.



If the steel happened to be a hardened tool steel, which I really very much doubt, and if you in fact got the steel hot enough to hot bend it, you would have ruined any heat treatment it had by getting the steel that hot. Mild steel will take an edge and cut paracord and newspaper.



You can post pictures to picassa, image shack, flikr, anywhere like that, then copy the picture url link and use the insert image tag to post pictures here as a basic member.

As far as good metal working experience, I don't know. If you're having fun, I guess it's good. If you're wanting to learn the right way, not really. Please, please, please read the stickies. I know it's boring, but you'll understand so much more about the process when you're done. You're at the age that if you started correctly, you could be really good by the time you're 25. But doing it your way is starting behind the eight ball.



I know you're excited and want to go go go. I'll bet every one of the guys here used to be your age and remembers how exciting it was. However, let us temper your excitement with some experience. If you learn the wrong way of doing something, is hard to unlearn it. I don't want to come off as a buzz kill or an ass, but that's the reality of it. If you really like making knives, and it looks like you do, study the process. You owe it to yourself to do the best job you can, but it takes work. I'll bet if your folks saw you really take an interest in this, and really study it, they'd help you buy a piece of 1080 or 1084 and some files and sandpaper and other stuff to get started the right way.

That's all I have. Not trying to be an ass. Hope you don't take it that way.
Click to expand...

I got the above i would just need to get the steel, i know a website which carriers 1080, when i get some more money i will definately get that. Not a buzz kill, it is needed info. Im just sort of happy due to the fact i got something that looks ok in the terms of the form, aside from that i do know that these kill time projects with that are just having fun and experiementing wit the different grind wheel. Im looking foward to buying the steel. I was think a 1080 or a 440c to start off but i see 1080 is the waynto go, thanks :)
 
A lot of the newer low carbon steel has boron added to allow an increase in hardness while maintaining the toughness of the steel. Still, you are looking at mid 40's for the HRc. Try to get a hold of a belt grinder as it will be better for knife making than a bench grinder. If you get a chance, post pictures.
 
Bo T said:
A lot of the newer low carbon steel has boron added to allow an increase in hardness while maintaining the toughness of the steel. Still, you are looking at mid 40's for the HRc. Try to get a hold of a belt grinder as it will be better for knife making than a bench grinder. If you get a chance, post pictures.
Click to expand...

Do you have a belt grinder you like or reccomend? I have little expierence with one in fact i only seen one that was made in the 90's when i was in metal shot. I didnt do work except read books because i lack social skills to approach the instructor with questions. Im now regretting that, i would know how to use a lathe, i only know the basic sheet metal working, spot welding withe the machine, and the basics of a drill press.
 
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