Imperial Tai Pan "Hamon"

[Drdan]

Was the hamon like effect etched or somehow abraded on the Imperial Tai Pan's blade? The knife itself is beautiful, but I would have opted for no "hamon" myself. Lots of stainless steel 'wallhanger katana' replicas have similar fake hamons, and they certainly do not have the same high quality blades as the Tai Pan.

Being that the Imperial model is a rare collector's item, it would certainly negate its collector value if the hamon were removed...

Thanks!

 

[Bigfattyt]

You are confusing a Hamon with a lamination line.

The imperial tai pan has Damascus layers laminated over a mono steel core. That wavy line is were the two layers meet. You could use it all day, every day, and those wavy lines won't go away. If you took a polisher to the knife, you could make it much less distinctive. My understanding, if I am remembering correctly, is that it has stainless Damascus over a stainless? core. They the etch to darken and distinguish the Damascus from the mono steel core.

If you did rub the etching off with use, you could re etch fairly easily and restore the look.


Some of my favorite custom makers do stainless over carbon cores, or stainless over Damascus cores.
A hamon, on the other hand is a wispy transition zone between harder and softer zones.

 

[Drdan]

I have a Japanese katana with a hamon produced by its maker by coating the blade with clay, and carving a destinctive pattern near the edge. When the blade was water quenched the area near the very edge (without the clay coating) cooled quicker and became the harder steel. The hamon is merely a visual manifestation of a differentially heat treated blade.

I could be mistaken or confused, but It appears that the Imperial Tai Pan's wavy line near the edge is simulating a hamon for "aesthetic purposes". The stainless steel would not show a hamon if coated in clay like a traditional Japanese blade and quenched. The San Mai of the Imperial Tai Pan is a soft Damascus stainless steel which covering a harder stainless core.

A lamination line can be seen in San Mai III Recon Tanto shown below. The harder inner steel of the sandwich is the darker line.

 

[KenHash]

What you describe about your katana is a true hamon, the difference between the jigane and hagane in hardness.
And the "hamon-like" appearance on the Imperial Taipan is for aesthetics. It follows the same method as the Browning Double Edged
Damscus Hunter- which was made by the same maker.

 

[Bigfattyt]

If a hamon is made by clay coating, and differential hardening, it is not carved. It is polished and etched to reveal.

On laminated steels, the contrasting lines can be controlled, and made in to endless patterns by shaping , folding and stacking steel during the forging.

Often a wavy die is used and pressed into the steel to get the regular wavy pattern.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I have a Japanese katana with a hamon produced by its maker by coating the blade with clay, and carving a destinctive pattern near the edge. When the blade was water quenched the area near the very edge (without the clay coating) cooled quicker and became the harder steel. The hamon is merely a visual manifestation of a differentially heat treated blade.

I could be mistaken or confused, but It appears that the Imperial Tai Pan's wavy line near the edge is simulating a hamon for "aesthetic purposes". The stainless steel would not show a hamon if coated in clay like a traditional Japanese blade and quenched. The San Mai of the Imperial Tai Pan is a soft Damascus stainless steel which covering a harder stainless core.

A lamination line can be seen in San Mai III Recon Tanto shown below. The harder inner steel of the sandwich is the darker line.

You are correct about the softer outer core of the Damascus and the harder stainless core on that knife.

 

[Drdan]

The clay is carved... After a craftsman applies the clay to a blade, he carefully carves the clay itself utilizing various tools; even a toothpick will do. There are dozens of hamon designs Japanese swordsmiths can make, and some have their "signature hamon". After the blade is quenched, the hamon is made to appear during the polishing process.

 

[Drdan]

The faux hamon as seen on the Imperial Tai Pan was most likely chemically produced by carefully brushing on ferric chloride, or a similar wet etchant. It could also have been applied mechanically though. I've never actually handled the Imperial model, and as I really like Tai Pans, I was curious...

 

[Bigfattyt]

The faux hamon as seen on the Imperial Tai Pan was most likely chemically produced by carefully brushing on ferric chloride, or a similar wet etchant. It could also have been applied mechanically though. I've never actually handled the Imperial model, and as I really like Tai Pans, I was curious...

Again, the wavy line is the demarcation, or transition between the inner higher carbon stainless and the outer, softer lower carbon layers of Damascus that are laminated on. It would etch darker because of the higher carbon content.

I don't believe the factory took the steel, and hand painted enchant on the edge to make an artificial line.

The whole blade is etched, and the color differences are due to the different carbon contents of the different steels.

So the whole blade likely gets the ferric chloride. No real reason to be carefully brushing it on.

You could, if you wanted to, make a fake hamon line that way, if you wanted.

I've done it on mono carbon steel. Of course, it does not really look like a real hamon line.

I've also made a Damascus looking patterns on steel by applying acidic substances in layers and for varying times.


If you took the Tia Pan and polished all the dark layer off, you would still be able to see the wavy line it you examined the steel closely. Because you have Damascus forge welded in a layer over the top of the stainless mono steel core. It is an actual physical line where the two steels meet.

Now, I've not seen the imperial Tai Pan made, but I have seen the same process done to custom layered knives, including stainless/carbon steel combos, stainless and Damascus combos. I've also seen the process on actual hamons.

If you bought one of the Imperial Tai Pans and polished it up, removing the grey etched color, you could recreate jt simply by replying dipping the whole blade in the acid etching solution, and get the same color differences., including the wavy line.


Again, I don't think there is a guy hand painting and developing that line with hand work. It is already there, and just revealed with a soak in the echant.

 

[Drdan]

Yeah, it does indeed appear to show the demarcation zone. It threw me off because it was wavy, and I assumed it was applied to the blade in some way purely for aesthetics. Hattori, who made the steel and the the knife, found a way to have the inner core appear as a wave when etched. The photo attached here is a VG-1 core San Mai blade closeup showing a straight line. Hattori kitchen knives in stainless damascus similarly show wavy areas of the harder inner core stainless near the edge.

It is not the result of differential heat treating, as in a hamon, but the result of the different steel's chemical reaction to the echant.

 

[ursamajor]

That knife is made by Hattori, who I consider to be the Randall Knives of Japan. It is gorgeous, and no part of it is fake. That is laminated steel, and the core is darker due to the acid washing of the blade. The handle also has real Ray Skin.

That knife is perfection, and a functional piece of art.

 

[Drdan]

Agreed, Hattori makes nice knives, and has made quite a few classics for companies including Cold Steel.

 

[Bigfattyt]

Custom makers will take a press and shaped dies to get interesting lines in their laminated steel.


The Imperial Tai Pans are one of those knives I should have bought back in the day. But really, I had no use for them other than collector pieces.


Some of my favorite custom knife makers do this, and the results can be every bit as stunning as a lovely hamon made in the traditional way. The benefit is that laminated stainless jacket on the knife is much less delicate from a use and maintenance standpoint.

 

[Drdan]

I will be on the lookout for one. I'm sure nobody who has one is using it for anything but looking at it. Wish Cold Steel would reissue them as a special limited knife, along with a handful of their classics, which have Always sold well. I have no doublt they would sell well. Are you reading this Lynn?