In 500 words or less, what is a "Custom"

Melvin-Purvis

Melvin-Purvis

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Guys, makers, et al.

I've heard the term "Production" knife applied to "cookie cutter" 1 of xx,xx1 factory knives, and I've heard the term "Handmade" knife applied to makers of distinct models of knives like Randall's, but I've always been led to believe that a "Custom" knife was a "1 of 1" made exclusive of all others, or made to a specific customer request....

I've followed these guidelines when I bought a "type" of knife for a specific purpose, i.e. a Spyderco Endura or Leatherman Wave, for work (Production), or a Randall #18, for the collection(Handmade), or to a specific knife that I've commissioned to have made, like a Jess Horn, (Custom).

So, and realizing there is some overlap here, I'd really, very much in fact, like to hear some definations of that what you think qualifies as a "Custom" knife.....This is a serious question here, not just an effort in futility (hopefully), and I'd like to hear back some serious responses.....please.

Thanks, and looking forward to your response(s)

Mel

"Buy Quality and Only Cry Once"
 
Hi Mel,

You can run a search for "Flames" and this forum and most of the results will be on this subject :D

Seriously,
I do not have time now, but will post the consensus of what the industry considers to be a custom knife which is the consensus we try to use here. By then somebody else may do it.

Either way let's try to have some fun on this subject rather than getting into the same old silly arguments.

For now a custom knife is not made in a shop where differnt employees perform different tasks in making a knife.
 
Melvyn,

I posted on the other thread about Randall Knives as well.

Randall Knives are not custom knives.

Here is the link to the by-laws of the US Knifemakers Guild.

This will explain to you the Guide lines used by the majority of people who make custom

knives.http://www.knifemakersguild.com/bylaws.htm

If you have further questions, you can direct them to the Board of Directors.
 
Well for some reason I can't edit my other post so Ill just make another one.

Melvin, The Guild Show is moving back to Orlando. So with Randall Knives being located in Orlando, you would think they would have a big display of their knives there.

However, there will be no Randall knives at the show, at least inside the show. There are two reasons for this:

1) Only knives made by Guild members (Past or Present) can be sold openly at the show.

2) Randall Knives had attained a Associate Membership, however according to the site this has lapsed. Associate Memberships are given to those who are not makers but support the makers of the Guild.

While it is true that not every custom knife maker is a member of the Guild.

Randall knives have a long and incredible history. They are an excellent value for the money. Further, I understand the pride in owing a Randall can bring. I remember when I bought my first model 14.

However, the fact remains, that these are not custom knives.
 
The Knifemakers Guild definition boils down to knives made by one person. That person must "must be engaged in the making of benchmade knives for sale to the public, including the grinding and/or forging his own knives"

So although Randall knives may be made according to customer order, because they are produced by the efforts of several people, they are not be considered 'custom' knives by the Knifemakers Guild.

The words handmade and benchmade are also problematic. How 'handmade' does something have to be? Does the use of an electric grinder mean the knife was machine-made? True one-of-a-kind knives are rare in the world of 'custom' knives. Many makers in the knifemakers guild produce many knives of a particular 'model'. A customer may specify blade materials, handle materials, or he may simply buy the knife off the makers table at a show and have no design input at all, but the knife is still a 'custom' knife.

The Guild requires that the knife must be made for a 'customer'. The customer can be the maker himself. So all the knives sold by makers at shows, or made to individual order, or resold by dealers, are Still custom knives because their production is the result of the efforts of one person.

Since many makers are now having parts laser-cut for them, buy screws and other small parts from companies, and buy steel from other makers, the definition of one-man production is sometimes blurred. The key thing is that the knife be designed, the blade ground, and the components of the knife are assembled and sold initially by One person. Makers must be honest when asked about the means of production of knives.

Gus is right about the emotional responses this topic sometimes elicits, but in my opinion the best definition of a 'custom' knife boils down 'made by one person'. Once that criteria is met, all sorts of other words like handmade, sole-authorship, customer designed, etc will be useful in describing the knife.

I personally agree with Les and the Guild. If the knife was primarily designed, produced, and sold by one maker, it is a custom knife. If more than one person is directly involved in the knife's production, the knife is not considered custom, but is a 'production' knife. Thus Chris Reeve knives, Randall knives, etc. are Not custom knives, even if the customer selects unique features of the knife. I suppose the word 'customized' might work, but the word 'custom' is reserved for the work of individual makers.

I hope that helps a little :)

Paracelsus
 
Gentlemen,

I sincerely appreciate your comments, and the way that you've presented your arguement(s).

I was in no way attempting to be divisive, nor was I attempting to rehash old threads, or attempting to start a "Flame" war.

Again, I appreciate your comments and the "shedding" of light that you've made with regards to my initial post.

As with all things, there may be a difference of opinion amongst peoples, and this thread is no different.

Yes, I have a serious vested interest in keeping my "handmade" Randall's valued at a highre rate than standard factory "production" knives, but per the Knifemakers Guild guidelines, I fear that I not only see your position, but to some degree am in agreement with the guidelines set forth by it.

So, in no particular order....

Gus,

Thanks for taking the time. I've heard nothing but the best about you, and I appreciate the comments. You've been in the business for some time now, whereas my wife and I have only been actively interested for 18 months or so.

Les,

Thank you as well. I understood that there was a difference between machine made "production" knives, handmade/hand fitted knives made by mulitple persons, i.e. "handmade" knives, and also that it would be a real can of worms to open a "handmade" category for knives based on the various degrees of what qualifies as a "handmade".

It's been said that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink....that analogy aside, I still see a difference between a "custom" knife, a "handmade" knife, and a "production" knife....and as such, in a very stubborn way, I'll neither post nor purchase RMK's listed at BFC as "production" knives.

No harm, no foul, and no hard feelings either way I hope. Btw, nice website ya have there, filled with many very nice knives, both "production" and "custom" Looking forward to doing business with ya some time down the road.

Mike,

Thanks buddy. Ya just about summed it all up right there. I sincerely do appreciate the way you diffused a potentially "funky" situation! Again, like the title of the post asked for, "In 500 words or less..." Nice work Mike, thanks.

So, I guess that just about settles it from this end. I'm gonna let it die from my end here with this last post.....unless any of ya say my dog is "ugly" ;)

Again, I appreciate all of your posts, and fully understand your frustrations in dealing with a "newbie..."

Mel

"Buy Quality and Only Cry Once"
 
Hi Melvin,

I have to admit, I for one am impressed with your comments. It is sometimes very difficult to look at something you love in a different light. It can be even more difficult to come to terms with it.

Thank you for the compliment on the site. Although, you may have been looking at someone elses site. As I have no factory or production knives on my site.

In the commonly held Lexicon of knives, Factory and Production are the same thing.

Actually, there are some Randall's that are custom knives. Bo Randall made several knives in the late 30's. My understanding is he made his last knife in 1939. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

So you could actually have a Randall that is a custom knife.

As Gus and Para pointed out. New categories are going to have to be developed to take into account the "gray area" knives.

Chris Reeve is a perfect example. Chris has and still does make some great knives. He is a voting member in not only the US but the South African Knifemakers Guild. That being said, the Sebenza folder won the best manufactured knife award at the Blade Show in 2000. So Chris and his knives may be the company to start one of these new categories.

Same thing with Jerry Busse, a very talented knife maker in his own right. However, the Busse line of knives currently being sold are not custom knives.

So with new people coming into the market place all the time, it is easy to see why there would be some confusion.

It's good that this thread gets re-born every few months. More times than not, it is the Randall debate.

I do find it curious that people who collect custom knives are seldom confused to what is and what is not a custom knife. The confusion seems to be with those who buy the Randall, Reeve and Busse knives (among others).

Unfortunatley, I think it mostly the dealers who are promoting the knives as something they are not, in order to make a sale. Doing so helps no one, save the person who made the sale. Long term it makes for an unhappy collector who may leave knives because of a bad experience.

No matter what kind of knives you buy, sell or trade. No one wants this to happen.
 
Gentleman,

The advent of technologically advanced methods of manufacture (ie computer controlled-CNC, wire EDM, laser cutting) has certainly thrown a new variable into the custom knife making equation. I am not opposed to any of these methods, and I will continue to buy knives which I fancy despite their method of making, but is the "one man shop" definition of custom knives the best for the hobby?

There are many makers who openly (or maybe not so openly) utilize these methods and are classified as "custom makers" while producing large numbers of very nice but essentially mass produced knives. Remember there is a supply as well as a demand part of the supply/demand curve. I buy custom knives because I can get exactly what I want and quite frankly I like the "handmade" aspect of it. Is "overproduction" and "manufacture" (ie programming a machine to spit out a bunch of blades, even "in house") a long term problem for the hobby?

I am not a knife investor, just an enthusiast, and wonder if the guild should address these issues.
 
Below is a post I made in a previous thread. I think it does a good job of explaining things.


I misuse the word custom all the time. Simply because it has become the word used to describe any handmade knife.

In all actuality there are seperate catagories that knives should be put in if we desire to refer to them in their "Correct" terms.

Custom made: this would be anything made to an individuals specified requirements. It could be made by hand or by machines, but if it is made to the specified requirements of the customer, then it is Custom made. The knife does not have to be a one of a kind. If a maker makes a knife to your unique specs and not from his regular line, it is a custom. Now say I see the knife and ask the same maker to make me that knife. It will be custom made as well, because there were no plans of it being made again(not in his product line)until I asked for it to be made for ME.

Hand Made: Any knife in which the majority of(blade and handle) was created by the makers hands. Tools and machines can be used, but the knife, or the machine/tool should be controlled by the makers hands. Components such as pins rivets and small accessories can be machined and not made by hand.

Production made: Any knife, in which the majority(blade and handle) of, was made by machines, and produced in large numbers.

So, to recap: Any maker who makes, by hand, a lot of the same knife and sells them to those that order them, is making “handmade” knives.

Any maker that creates a knife, by hand or otherwise, to the specified requirements of a customer, is making “custom made” knives.

Any maker producing knives in large quantities that are made largely by machines is making “production” knives.

I think this is a good outline. Maybe there are some holes in this theory, if so, please comment. I am interested in hearing what you all have to say.

Like I mentioned previously though, I misuse the terms. I refer to all knives made by hand as “custom made” instead of the proper term of “hand Made”.
 
:eek: :( I has gotten myself in trouble with a similiar posting, I would say go no further! To quote the old world maps "Here be Monsters" Can ruin and bloodshed be far behind??

:barf:
 
Bandaidman,

Im sure the advent of the electric band saw, drill press, milling machine brought the same cries from "old school" knife makers.

Just as the advent of new technology today has made these former users of new technology, cry out for sanctions on those who use a upgraded system.

What many people don't realize is that had it not been for custom knife makers utilizing this technology that many of todays custom knife buyers would not be involved in custom knives.

Because of the difficulties involved in working with titanium, it is very cost effective to have it laser (or other wise pre-cut). Consequently, it would be much more expensive if everything was done in shop.

Case in point, Warren Osborne offered a knife called the Silver Tip. You could buy it two ways. The first, all the work was done by Warren, the price was $650.00. The second, Warrend had the parts laser cut. The price of this knife was $450.00.

Side by side, the knives looked identical. So you can imagine which one sold better.

The finished product utilizing Laser, wire or other cutting does nothing more than provide the maker with a percision BLANK. The maker still has to finish the knife.

As with Warren, several well known makers found they could produce a very high quality knives. at an affordable price. This allowed two things to occur.

First, more people could afford custom knives.

Second, it allowed more makers to go full time, as they could now make enough money to support their families as custom knife makers.

For years, many makers have outsourced their heat treating and no one ever said anything about that. Quite frankly, proper heat treating can make or break the quailty of a blade. Should those makers who don't heat treat their won blades be considered something other than custom knife makers?

So it goes with laser cutting. It does nothing but enhance the quality of the blanks the makers start with. I could give you all the laser cut parts, but after you put the knife together you would find it looked nothing like what the professional knife maker did.

Technology, no matter what form it takes will always bring cries of "unfair". Generally, these cries are from those who do not understand it, cannot afford it or are not willing to utilize it.

Remember, it is always easier to pull someone down to your level than it is for you to raise up to theirs.
 
I appreciate your replies Les and Louis

I am not against the use of technology at all. However the outsourcing of basic tasks like forming the blanks/frames and cutting the blade violates the "single craftsman" rule as multiple people are now involved in its construction. While it might have brought cries of "unfair" at one time, the use of power tools such as bandsaws and belt grinders still requires a considerable amount of skill by the maker to produce a quality blade. The use of laser cutters and wire-edm machines requires programming knowledge more than anything else (must also have design skill as well). Give me barstock and basic raw materials and there is no way I could make a knife. Give me a bunch of premade parts Les and I could make something semi functional and it might even be sharp :) . With a lot of practice and instruction I might even make something on the Pakastani quality level :p . I must admit I am better at fixing faces than putting together knives, but my knifemaking skills are not what this discussion is all about!

So why the diatrabe?? If makers want to outsource certain parts of the manufacturing process, I say go for it!! I am all for cheaper knives and am in favor of knifemakers making a good living. There are many such knives I would like to buy. However, I think there should be truth in advertising. If you utilize any of these methods or use apprentices you should say so. Many custom knife makers do outsource their heat treating and readily admit it. The advent of the high tech CPM steels almost necessitates it. If they say Paul Bos heat treated the blade I consider that a positive as he is one of the best in the business. This should be true of the other manufacturing steps as well. I feel there is a certain panache to a truly handcrafted blade. I appreciate the skill required to make it and appreciate the artistry it represents. I will pay a premium for it. I will still buy blades partially made by machines with outsourced laser cut blades and handles, perhaps with some assembly help from an apprentice, I will just pay less of a premium.

With a handforged blade from an ABS member you know exactly what you are getting.

I would like to know exactly what I am getting if I am buying a blade from a guild member or any custom maker.

This is why I stated in my previous post I think the guild should revisit its position.

I like Loius' (the martial way) guidelines, they make a lot of sense to me.
 
Hi Dan,

Hate to keep bursting bubbles here. Regarding "knowing exactly what you are getting with a hand forged blade".

Actually, there is not a lot of "Hand forging" that goes on any more.

Most makers use a very heavy duty trip hammer for most of the pounding. Now a favorite among many in the ABS is a hydraulic press. This devices enables a maker to make even a cleaner pattern in the Damascus.

True, not all makers utilize these tools. However, very few, if any make Damascus completely by just using a hammer and anvil.

Technology is now brining us Mosaic patterns in the steel which are awesome!
 
No bubbles burst here...

Again I am not against the use of machines or power hammer or the like...

Think of it this way, would an ABS master smith be able to use a piece of Devon Thomas damascus, put a pretty handle on it and call it a "John Doe M.S." knife. It is my undertanding he would not.

To the general public, especially with the way the guild rules are written and interpreted, when someone makes or sells custom knives it implies one person and one person alone was involved in its making. I did not write these rules, the makers themselves did, in order to promote the craft and ensure the integrity of its members products.

It has been appropriately pointed out over and over again that Randall and Chris Reeve knives are not customs because more than one person is involved in its manufacture. The same should be true if "Moe" cuts the blade, "Larry" cuts out the handle and programs the CNC machine, and "Curly" assembles and finishes it and puts his name on it. No doubt "Curly" is the most involved and possesses the most skill, but the work is only partially his.

To be blunt, I consider it deceitful to farm out major portions of the manufacturing process without admitting it. I think it hurts the reputation of the guild and custom makers to allow it to go on. Again it is not wrong to use outsourced parts, but their use should be stated.

This is why the guild should consider revisiting its rules.......




edited for a lack of typing skills
 
I have heard several knifemakers complain about part outsourcing and think the Guild needs to more carefully define how much of that is acceptable. The ABS guys almost always use their own steel and do their own heat treatments. On the other hand, I know a couple of mastersmiths who make folding knives with CNC cut parts, and send blades out for cryogenic treatment. The main thing is that customer should know enough to ask 'how did you make this knife?'

I do not think the word 'custom' has to exclude new technology and outsourcing parts. It benefits both the knifemaker AND the customer. Most makers who use other makers steel identify that fact. I don't think a maker using Mike Norris, or Devin Thomas, or Robert Eggerling steel is doing anything that much different from ordering sheet steel from a knife supply store.

Certainly I apply a lot more value to sole-authorship knives, but that is a category within 'custom' knives. Sole-authorship is not a requirement to BE a custom knife. Certainly using modern technology allows a maker to produce more knives of a particular model than he could on his own, but if the price reflects that and he is honest about means of knife making, where is the harm?

Another way to think about this is to think of knifemaking as art. Artists are recognized for the quality of their own work, even if others helped to produce the idea. In the case of bronze sculptures, the artist works in clay and sends the completed work out to a foundry for casting. Yet the creative work is still the artists alone.

It is hard to think of any noted painters who always worked with several other people. Artists are individuals. Custom knifemakers are individuals. Their name is attached to their work. Craftsmen who work for factories have the factories name applied to their work. These are two different things.

Custom Knifemakers are Artists. As I said before, a custom knifemaker must Always be responsible for personally grinding the blade, finishing and fitting parts, and final assembly. But outsourcing the making of small parts according to the knifemakers specifications does not mean that the maker has lost control over the process. If fact, it gives him More control and the ability to make more high quality knives available to the public.
 
Dan,

I agree with you 100%. Those who are using laser cut parts, etc. should list this in their advertising. Actually, most do.

Additionally, they are quick to point out (with some degree of pride) that knife features the steel of such noted Damascus makers as Devin Thomas, Mike Norris, Robert Eggerling, Jerry Rados. Daryl Meier, Nick Smolen and a few others.

An interesting fact is that after about the $600 range on a folder the use of outsourced materials cease to exist. As the knives are now built one at a time. Seems the market is smaller for that $600 - $1,000.00. The makers who can command $1,000 for a knife also have command of all the skills necessary to produce a knife at that level. Although, some will still utilize others Damascus (always giving them full credit).

So your point is well taken. Perhaps the Guild should re-look making it mandatory that all aspects of a knife construction should be a matter of public record. This would allow each individual to determine which makers they want to buy from.

However, the fact remains utilizing technology has enabled many makers to become full-time makers. At the same time this has allowed tens of thousands of new custom knife buyers into the market place.

Quite frankly, if it were not for the advent of the Tactical Folder some 6 years ago. Which pioneered much of the technology that is common place today. The custom knife market as we know it today would be substantially smaller, with fewer makers, dealers and collectors in it. To the point that it would have been relegated back to the almost unkown status it had back in the early 70's.

There are those who will deny this and would argue that this is not the case. Take it from someone who buys and sells knives for a living and has done so for 6 years.

Many who have entered the custom knife market in the past 5 years, view me as the largest tactical folder dealer in the country. However, you should know that in 10 years prior to the start of my selling tactical folders, you could have counted the number of folders I sold on both hands.
 
If a website offers a particular knife model from a maker, and has it in stock, how can it be a custom knife? presumably you and a a buddy could both order one from the website on the same day. imagine each then showing the other his new custom knife! no way would that make sense.

I figure if a knife has a Model Name assigned to it and is carried in the inventory stock of a website, you shouldn't call it a custom knife.
 
Amal,

In the Lexicon of custom knives, there are two definitions.

The first describes the group of knives as a whole. The term "custom knives" was coined in the 70's.

The second refers to a knife usually being made to a customers request.

This gets even more confusing. If a knife is built to a customers specs it is a "custom" knife. However, if a knife is a model that the maker already and you ask for that model, but with a few changes. Now, by your definition you cannot have a custom knife. Literally it is a customized custom knife. But custom in the broad sense of the word and not in the narrow scope of the meaning.

At this point it is probably better to understand the broad sense of the word, and realize that when people refer to custom knives this is the definition they are using.
 
Interesting thread...one of the better on the topic.

Amalgam...I think the confusion is "who" has defined the term "custom" in this instance. If you look closely at the discussion, all the references to the definition refer to the Guild. As such, "custom" means that the knife has been made by one person with specific restrictions/liberties on the word "made". With this definition (although I haven't followed the thread to read the Guild bylaws, so please correct me if I am wrong), this has nothing to do with what you are referring to which is uniqueness of the piece, that is, "customized". I would tend to agree with you that the word "custom" has been defined in such a way as to lead to situations as you describe, seemingly opposite to its common use. But the Guild has propogated this other definition for years. So, that being said, context is important. I suppose that originally, knives being made by one man were truly "custom", but the lines have certainly blurred with the plethora of machines that make replication easy.

Now considering that "custom" on BF has not been defined as such, this seems to confuse many. I suppose that it is up to the moderators, but some grace may be in order. I think we've seen that here. Well done.
 
Hi Jeff,

I just posted this in the General Forum in response to a AG Russell post.

I think it agrees with what you were saying as well as pointing out what some of the problems are early on with posters and the new software:

Somewhere in the 70's the term "Custom" knives was coined. Not to be used in the "narrow" scope of it's true definition, but as more of a marketing word.

Consequently, to most involved in "Custom" knives we understand that there are two custom defintions.

Using the example of a drop point hunter delivered by Bob Loveless with green micarta, may not be a custom in the narrow scope. However, in the large scope it is a "Custom" knife. As it is a hand made knife.

This term "hand made" has also been open for debate. No knife is literally hand made, as saws, mills, grinders, drill press', etc. are used. Perhaps the term should be hand tool made.

Back to the other example, Buck Custom Shop does not produce custom knives. When contacting a factory such as Buck or Randall when you request a change to an established pattern, using the accurate definition, this is a "Customized" knife.

Are these knives, hand made? Yes, they are. As are Chris Reeve Knives, Busse, White Wing, William Henry, Randall and Lile Knives.

However, none of these knives, as they are made today, can accurately be called "Custom" knives.

Some of the confusion comes from the fact that Chris Reeve, Jerry Busse and Jimmy Lile were/are known as custom knife makers. Compound this with the fact that you can still find "Custom" knives from all three of these makers. Where as Busse and Lile have changed their logo's, Reeve has not. Further adding to the confusion.

When people ask me, as I have done many times on this forum. Check with the Guild and see if the construction techniques meet with the Guild's requirement for admission into the Guild. If if meets the requirements, it is a "Custom" knife, if not it is not a "Custom" knife.

Randall, Reeve, Busse, William Henry, Lile and a few others do not meet the Guild criteria. There for these knives are not "Custom" knives.

Spark was nice enough to break down the categories into production and custom, folder and fixed. He did this to help eliminate confusing posts. As in BF old form, you would see an add such as this one:

Elishewitz, Onion, Terzuola, Carson, Ralph, Lightfoot. Well those of us who collect custom knives would click on this only to find the ad should have read:

Benchmade, Kershaw, Spyderco, Outdoor Edge, Smith and Wesson and CRKT.

This is part of the reason for accurate definintions. As the word custom takes on a meaning of a better product. By listing the names of the makers (knowing full well these individuals had absolutely nothing to do with the construction of the knives), non the less did so to sweep for a wider customer base. While he was not necessarily dis-honest, by listing the add by maker instead of the factory that actually made the knife he was walking in that gray area.

Consequently, when I saw the post for the Randall, I suggested that it be put in the correct category. As I did for a few Busse knives that were there.

Someone just emailed me to inform me that:

- Here is a post by a well known Dealer;

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...threadid=159409


- Here is a post by a MAKER selling one of his own knives;

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...threadid=160053


- Here are a couple of Posts by two other Makers selling other Maker's knives;

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...threadid=159606

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...threadid=159728


- Here is a post for a Mad Dog brand knife (which IMO should be lumped into the same category as the Busses);

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...threadid=159420


- How about a Khukuri, No Maker or Production method identified;

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...threadid=160063


- I found no less than seven (7) For Sale posts for Busses.

- And finally there have been approx three (3) Posts in this Forum with someone selling Randalls.

It seems that out of these 16 questionable Posts only 25% were Moved or received Comments to the Seller saying they should do something different with their Post (ie. move it to a different Forum). Two of these posts were selling Randalls and now two were posts selling Busses. Of these four posts, three were submitted by the one individual.

I know that you are trying your best in your efforts to keep the Forum running smoothly and I think this is probably just an oversight so I wanted to bring it to your attention. I personally don't mind putting any For Sale posts in their proper category, but the thought that only one or two kinds of posts (or one Poster) have been singled out does concern me. Again, not trying to interfere just trying to present you with some facts that you might not have been aware of. No need to reply to me just keep up the good work.

He obviously thought I was the moderator of these forums. I can see how he would come to that conclusion. I informed him that I was not the moderator and asked he forward this to Spark.

See AG, it's not just definitions. It's keeping the custom forums as the should be. Devoid of "Non-Custom" knives. I think some of the other posts just stem from confusion caused by the new soft ware.

I think we are all in agreement that it can be confusing. I know when I am in doubt, I follow the guide lines of the Guild and ABS.

One thing they all agree on is that Custom Knife Making is not a "Team" sport.
 
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