Increasing Commonality of AEB-L and Nitro-V, Why?

H0kieengineer

H0kieengineer

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I’ve noticed that more small makers and many custom makers are using AEB-L or Nitro-V more often. I know they are tough for stainless steels and take a fine edge, but they don’t have the wear resistance of CPM-154 or S30V or other options.

Why are people using it? For newer, small makers, I can understand. It’s an inexpensive stainless that is easy to work with. For big time custom makers and production shops, it seems like a huge step back.

Edit: For kitchen knives, wear a keen edge is more important that wear resistance, I can also understand AEB-L or Nitro-V.
 
I personally love the trend. I’d maybe pick a CPM-154 fixed blade over an AEB-l one, but certainly an AEB-L over an S30V. Why ? Because I don’t do rope cutting tests. Larrin says it well here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/03/04/all-about-aeb-l/

“the high edge stability of AEB-L means it can be used in knives with thinner edges where it has both superior cutting ability and edge retention to steels with more wear resistance but poorer toughness.”

And Nitro-V is like a little more stain resistant AEB-L. If it’s easier and cheaper to use for our knife makers, so much the better, and I can trust the heat treatment more.
 
Money and perception. For lower cost knives, those steels are easier to work with and cost less, but have a very good reputation in the knife world (for good reason, IMO). S30V certainly doesn't have a bad rep, but it's also very much yesterday's news and slightly higher end knives are now largely S35VN, M390 or an equivalent or even S45VN.

So under $100 I can get 14c28n, Nitro V, AEB-L and D2, steels that might not perform quite as well as S30V or CPM-154, but will come close and perform well (in some ways, perform better as noted by ferider ferider ) and getting over $100 I can start getting the newer, higher performing, better thought of steels I listed above. That doesn't leave a great niche in the market for S30V, which will always add fairly significant expense precisely due to it's abrasive wear resistance that requires more time on grinders and more belts.
 
One thing to remember, part of the reason they made S35VN in the first place was to make a steel that was easier to machine and work with. Given that, it's not surprising to see S30V fading away given that it's replacement is, as far as I can tell, both considered more desirable by consumers and less expensive to machine for manufacturers.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Money and perception. For lower cost knives, those steels are easier to work with and cost less, but have a very good reputation in the knife world (for good reason, IMO). S30V certainly doesn't have a bad rep, but it's also very much yesterday's news and slightly higher end knives are now largely S35VN, M390 or an equivalent or even S45VN.

So under $100 I can get 14c28n, Nitro V, AEB-L and D2, steels that might not perform quite as well as S30V or CPM-154, but will come close and perform well (in some ways, perform better as noted by ferider ferider ) and getting over $100 I can start getting the newer, higher performing, better thought of steels I listed above. That doesn't leave a great niche in the market for S30V, which will always add fairly significant expense precisely due to it's abrasive wear resistance that requires more time on grinders and more belts.
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I just got an email from DLT about the new Hoback Husky in Nitro-V. For $575. I understand the cost of the Hoback name, but that cost for just Nitro-V?
 
H0kieengineer said:
I just got an email from DLT about the new Hoback Husky in Nitro-V. For $575. I understand the cost of the Hoback name, but that cost for just Nitro-V?
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For high end stuff like customs and midtechs like that I think it's more about the makers preferences than steel attributes, so I don't know that there's one answer to that one. My guess would be that Nitro V is easier to grind and machine, but it could be his familiarity with the steel or even just that he got a great price on it and wanted to experiment some.
 
I believe the resurgence in AEB-L had something to do with an increase in availability of flat stock in knife thicknesses, I want to say I asked this question a few years ago and AVigil AVigil said something about knifemaker supply places getting knife-thickness AEB-L as a new option at that time. Nitro-V is an outgrowth of AEB-L that was more directly made and marketed with an eye to the knifemaking market. AEB-L has always been a quality stainless steel, but the upswing in popularity with custom knife makers in terms of properties of the steel is that it's a simple stainless (I think easier to heat treat reliably, I could be wrong), relatively inexpensive, and is by far the toughest common stainless knife steel with a fine grain structure and good grindability/machinability. I think they're attractive choices along with CPM154 for knifemakers branching out into stainless for the first time, especially for those who predominantly make fixed blades, where the combination of toughness and stainlessness would make it popular.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
One thing to remember, part of the reason they made S35VN in the first place was to make a steel that was easier to machine and work with. Given that, it's not surprising to see S30V fading away given that it's replacement is, as far as I can tell, both considered more desirable by consumers and less expensive to machine for manufacturers.
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I don't think that S30V is going away anytime soon...
It is STILL a really good blade steel, and most folks are probably happy with it. (IMHO)
 
Bob Denman said:
I don't think that S30V is going away anytime soon...
It is STILL a really good blade steel, and most folks are probably happy with it. (IMHO)
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I don't expect it to vanish entirely anytime soon. For one thing, it was such a popular choice for so long that I'm sure there's still a ton of it around and it will end up getting used. But I think there's less and less reason right now to put it in newer models.
 
I don't know about folders but at least as far as harder use fixed blades go they seem to outperform anything else regarding toughness, The 14c28n>Nitro-V>AEB-L stainless group has a place where it doesn't just perform well, but actually performs the best. I should add, they really aren't that cheap when used in fixed blade sizes though, considerably more then the likes of 1095 and D2.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I don't expect it to vanish entirely anytime soon. For one thing, it was such a popular choice for so long that I'm sure there's still a ton of it around and it will end up getting used. But I think there's less and less reason right now to put it in newer models.
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*Benchmade lowers their newspaper and glares at you over their fogey old man reading glasses from across the room*

🤣🤣
 
I love all the new powder steels (still looking for something in MagnaCut) but I've been highly impressed by my Buck Slim Pro in S30V, not to mention my Mini-Rukus which I bought maybe 10 years ago. Both are very fine grained, take and hold a hair-popping edge.
 
I found steel like XHP and CPM-154 to have an excellent balance between edge holding, corrosion resistance, and ease of bringing the edge back. I don't always cut piles of cardboard or abuse my knife so the extreme wear of S110V or mega toughness of 3V is not necessaryfor me.
 
In my opinion, using AEB-L or Nitro-V is an instant no buy. A folder is inherently not that strong, so using a tough steel is a bit of a waste. I appreciate the super/ultra/mega steels for their either exceptional wear resistance (M4, Rex 45) or stainlessness and high wear resistance (M390, CPM-xxxV steels).

A fixed blade is a different story, but I lean very heavily non-stainless in my preference.
 
H0kieengineer said:
In my opinion, using AEB-L or Nitro-V is an instant no buy. A folder is inherently not that strong, so using a tough steel is a bit of a waste. I appreciate the super/ultra/mega steels for their either exceptional wear resistance (M4, Rex 45) or stainlessness and high wear resistance (M390, CPM-xxxV steels).

A fixed blade is a different story, but I lean very heavily non-stainless in my preference.
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That's fair. I find I have very little need of the kind of wear resistance those super steels offer and I like the ability to have a very thin, stable edge for cutting efficiency and edge retention. AEB-L and Nitro V are both very good for that and it's easy to achieve that kind of an edge on those steels. I certainly won't turn down a knife with a super steel, but things like Nitro V fit my needs quite well.
 
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