Increasing my range with quarter-spin style?

M

Mr_Kirmudget

Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
4
I've been practicing throwing knives with only 1/4 spin, basically the "Ralph Thorn Style," and I have become very consistent at a distance of about 7 feet. I started at about 3 feet, so I have been improving, but I just don't see myself being able to do this at considerably longer distances. Whenever I try, I can't keep the knife from spinning too much. Do I just need to keep practicing at distances farther and farther back until I get there? Or is there something I need to change about the way I throw?
 
Bear in mind that the no spin throwing style need the knife to be balanced in a very specific disposition.
It is related to the throwing darts discipline.

So if you are throwing with regular knives or regular throwing knives, you need to balance them properly.

Do you have your knives rigged in such sense?

Btw, throwing darts nowadays is always refered as a mistical eastern hability, but it is not only so, we westerners have a very long tradition on it
http://totalwar.wikia.com/wiki/Plumbatarii_(Western_Roman_Empire)

whqt you do with the no spin method is throw a knife like a dart, so you need to balance the knife to make it behave in the air like one.
 
No specific balance point is necessary for no spin throwing but having the weight more in the handle is helpful.

The reason the knife is overspinning is because you are releasing it too late and/or flipping your wrist too hard. Let go of it earlier, with a little more of a lob flight pattern.
 
aguijonmagico - no-spin throwing is NOT dart throwing. It is very slow rotation throw.


Mr_Kirmudget - what size/weight do you use? They should be about 30cm and 300grams of weight. If they are much smaller it wont work.
And don't start throwing at 1 meter or 2 meters. At this distance standard rotation will stick the knife, and you need to learn to throw with SLOOOW rotation.
Lets take some "Ralph Thorn Style" from youtube.
First result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1yMhryDxd8
Not good at all. Too close to target.
Second result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji1nBmcKuoo
PaladinPress video. Look at the later part of video. They use WHOLE body to achieve powerful and distant throw.
You need to do this. It is much more important than wrist movement.


Or you can look at my lousy video :) LAST four throws are made with no-spin. As you can see, the distance is similar to other throws but body movement is much larger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGFBUV4g3s8
 
You are completely wrong about all my knives being heavily distorted from regular knives. I throw regular throwing knives, regular knives, screwdrivers and many other objects far more than anything "distorted".

You must have only seen some very old video, where I used heavily taped knives, which in any event only alters the balance point of a knife to where it would be with a knife with a regular handle.

If you check other threads here, or other videos, you will find that I mostly throw ordinary throwing knives with handles, or handleless knives of a design called Shurknife, which differs from other handleless knives only by having the balance point about 10 percent further back. And I have often thrown regular 50 percent balanced throwing knives, they just lack a little range.
 
I have Used the Thorn style with regular throwing knives with success, even though they are not weighted in the handle. Works well for me.

I am not a pro, and don't throw knives as much now as I used to. I have shifted to more Hawk and axe throwing.
 
eralphthorn said:
You are completely wrong about all my knives being heavily distorted from regular knives. I throw regular throwing knives, regular knives, screwdrivers and many other objects far more than anything "distorted".

You must have only seen some very old video, where I used heavily taped knives, which in any event only alters the balance point of a knife to where it would be with a knife with a regular handle.

If you check other threads here, or other videos, you will find that I mostly throw ordinary throwing knives with handles, or handleless knives of a design called Shurknife, which differs from other handleless knives only by having the balance point about 10 percent further back. And I have often thrown regular 50 percent balanced throwing knives, they just lack a little range.
Click to expand...

Well I've red your book were you explain how to weight the knives with tape, and also you advocate the use of long knifes. I'm I crazy or what? Even more, in that book you instruct the reader to TAKE THE HANDLE AWAY and replace it with tape.
And the shureknife it's nowhere near to any classic pattern. I've seen the paladin press release video.

Let me tell you this: I'm grateful to your work. I admire it. I have experimented following your book, and ended adding in my regular knives some tape at the end.
I get the system, no spin, full body throw, greater lenght, intuitive aiming, etc. And I do agree that you can throw in that fashion a regular knife.

But the fact is that it is easier to throw with long knives with heavy butts, or specialized designs. That was my advice to the op. And that it's YOUR OWN ADVICE IN YOUR BOOK.

If my post seemed to ascertain that you can ONLY no spin throw with rigged knives, I stand corrected. It's much more easier.
I repeat, I'm a fan of your work, I started throwing knives because of it.
Respect for you, and peace out.
 
eralphthorn said:
No specific balance point is necessary for no spin throwing but having the weight more in the handle is helpful.

The reason the knife is overspinning is because you are releasing it too late and/or flipping your wrist too hard. Let go of it earlier, with a little more of a lob flight pattern.
Click to expand...

I haven't realized you were you :) when I red this. Sorry, again, big fan.
 
aguijonmagico said:
Bear in mind that the no spin throwing style need the knife to be balanced in a very specific disposition.
It is related to the throwing darts discipline.

So if you are throwing with regular knives or regular throwing knives, you need to balance them properly.

Do you have your knives rigged in such sense?

Btw, throwing darts nowadays is always refered as a mistical eastern hability, but it is not only so, we westerners have a very long tradition on it
http://totalwar.wikia.com/wiki/Plumbatarii_(Western_Roman_Empire)

whqt you do with the no spin method is throw a knife like a dart, so you need to balance the knife to make it behave in the air like one.
Click to expand...

Yes, I see that I wrote like the only way to work it's to add weight to the knife. It's not true.
I was answering the question "how do I add range to my throw"
My answer stands right in the meaning of: did you rigged the knife? That will give you more range and ease the throw.

Now, truly peace out. There is no point in answering about no spin throw when you have in the forum the guy who wrote the book I've learned from :)
Thanks for it again, Mr. Thorn.
 
eralphthorn said:
I mostly throw ordinary throwing knives with handles, or handleless knives of a design called Shurknife, which differs from other handleless knives only by having the balance point about 10 percent further back. And I have often thrown regular 50 percent balanced throwing knives, they just lack a little range.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same position as the OP as far as 'no spin' or 1/4 spin as I've seen it described. I am very new to throwing knives and while I have the 1/2 to full spin down fairly well, I can't quite get the lob/release timing body mechanics down for any range past 4-5 feet just yet. I am sure it will come with time. Part of my problem is my location in my yard. I am leary of 'throwing' any long distance without accuracy (meaning practicing) as property lines of yards are close and too many nosey neighbors give me 'stage fright' so-to-speak, so I can't relax and lob away at this point..lol

The reason I bolded eralphthorn's statement is even though I am not at any point to verify personal experience with balanced and off balanced knives, 1/4 or no spin throwing knives at multiple distances, is all my life I've been around some friend, or friend of a friend that has throw anything from a ink pen, military knife, machete, multitudes of their mother's kitchen cutlery- (bad boys in trouble for that) etc.. in this fashion from some ridiculously long distances.

That said IMHO, nearly any type knife (or similar shaped object as I've witnessed) can be mastered or thrown this style with the proper body/arm/hand mechanics and basic physics. Translates to the advice given in these threads and also lots of practice... ;)

Easier said than done for some of us, but I have no doubt that I'll get it eventually... Good luck also to the OP!

"
 
Mr_Kirmudget said:
I've been practicing throwing knives with only 1/4 spin, basically the "Ralph Thorn Style," and I have become very consistent at a distance of about 7 feet. I started at about 3 feet, so I have been improving, but I just don't see myself being able to do this at considerably longer distances. Whenever I try, I can't keep the knife from spinning too much. Do I just need to keep practicing at distances farther and farther back until I get there? Or is there something I need to change about the way I throw?
Click to expand...

This is my exact post I was about to write!
I can stick it pretty much 95% of the time up to I'd say 20-25 feet. I want to throw farther!
 
Viper1357 said:
I'm in the same position as the OP as far as 'no spin' or 1/4 spin as I've seen it described. I am very new to throwing knives and while I have the 1/2 to full spin down fairly well, I can't quite get the lob/release timing body mechanics down for any range past 4-5 feet just yet. I am sure it will come with time. Part of my problem is my location in my yard. I am leary of 'throwing' any long distance without accuracy (meaning practicing) as property lines of yards are close and too many nosey neighbors give me 'stage fright' so-to-speak, so I can't relax and lob away at this point..lol

The reason I bolded eralphthorn's statement is even though I am not at any point to verify personal experience with balanced and off balanced knives, 1/4 or no spin throwing knives at multiple distances, is all my life I've been around some friend, or friend of a friend that has throw anything from a ink pen, military knife, machete, multitudes of their mother's kitchen cutlery- (bad boys in trouble for that) etc.. in this fashion from some ridiculously long distances.

That said IMHO, nearly any type knife (or similar shaped object as I've witnessed) can be mastered or thrown this style with the proper body/arm/hand mechanics and basic physics. Translates to the advice given in these threads and also lots of practice... ;)

Easier said than done for some of us, but I have no doubt that I'll get it eventually... Good luck also to the OP!

"
Click to expand...

I worked up to 20 ft by literally taking it step by step. Doing it that way, you'll get a feel for how to adjust your release, etc. to make up for the distance.
No spin is really something you certainly have to practice, practice, practice. You'll get it, just be diligent!
 
Some feedback on the Thorn system video:

Ralph,
On your video you have a short section where you are demonstrating that the wrist is the primary propulsion for throwing in your system. You stand about 3 feet away and hold your elbow with your opposite palm and flip them in with your wrist. Watching this was a game changer for me! I could do this about 10 times successfully in a row while my wrist got the balance and range and then step back a foot, do about five more in a row and step back a foot, do the same again but with my elbow released so that some arm was necessary to get it there, then another foot and another foot until about 12 feet of range was easy and consistent. I then had to start resorting to something of a baseball pitcher's style wind up but over time was able to get them consistently out to 25 feet or so. Working over 15 feet, varying height of target and being able to mix and match knife length and weight has all been a matter of (as you suggested in your video) many thousands of throws. But I have had a variety of people over who wanted to try it and by starting them out close with their elbow in their opposite palm, all of them have left after an hour or so consistently sticking knives at about 12 feet. While I have thrown all sorts of stuff, I do find that 50/50 knives or handle heavy knives are certainly easier to keep flying true at any range and the heavier they are the longer distances I can get. Even when light ones get 20 feet and hit point on they often bounce from my pine targets. I have also found that almost all my handles when wrapped with paracord are just more controllable so I wrap most everything at first even if I later remove the wrap when I am consistent with it. By the way, Ralph your system is great and has provided me with great fun and even my wife enjoys throwing!
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the nice comments.

I was training someone one on one last weekend and we were talking about that "wall" that people seem to hit at 12 feet and I realized what it probably is. You have to shift from using mostly wrist propulsion inside that distance to using mostly arm propulsion, because the wrist is too weak to propel a knife past that distance. He agreed with me that it was probably that. A beginner builds confidence using the wrist, but then gets to a certain range and has to change his/her way of thinking. I am now going to start concentrating more on teaching people to use the shoulder as a "pivot" to increase arm speed past 12 feet and thus increase their range. It's been an important insight for me moving forwards in training people. It sounds like you might have discovered the same thing, only in reverse - learning the wrist propulsion, then the arm action later.
 
Ralph,

What I love about watching and learning from your video on a computer is the ability to pause all along the video and see every phase of a wind up, throw and release as well as getting to follow the knife travel from hand to target. Couldn't do that years ago. It makes everything involved make sense. I read the book first and needed to see the technique from the side before I got it in my brain. We had been having rain for weeks and I wanted to start so I began in the basement with your wrist flip and moved back a couple of feet per day till I had no choice but move outside. Now that I realize how important that wrist thing is I can take a beginner in an hour where I arrived in about 3 weeks. Incredible!
 
Regarding increased no-spin range:

I was out in the practice yard today for more time than usual and was throwing kunai style knives. When I first read Ralph's book and watched the video, I thought I would not be able to throw these because the big ring on the end would interfere with my cupping grip, finger slide and controlled release. In fact there were several knives with weird handles that I just couldn't throw no-spin at all, until recently. But as he mentions in the video, after several thousand throws your hands sort of take over and start just doing the work themselves. I was describing this to a friend. When you watch someone who has played basketball all his life strip a net, he isn't mentally calculating distance to the net, angle of arc, force of arc etc. His hands just somehow know and do the calculations automatically. This is sort of what has happened with knives for me. I have also noticed that if I go out there at dusk or right after a storm and my light is poor I start missing because my depth perception is affected. I can hit 95% or so in good light and may be 60% in poor light. I can't control the spin correctly if my eyes can't see the range.

And this summer with all the rain, my pine targets would go from easy stick juicy and soft to hard pine lightered depending on the rainfall and the sun each day. And these Kunai knives are super sharp. If they hit point on, they stick even in pine lightered knots. Also, I already had them. So one day when I was lamenting the poor sticking rate of heavier thicker blades, I carried them out to try. Darn if they didn't work! So I rewrapped them in larger paracord and have been using them on the hard target days. Today, I was examining what was allowing this to work since obviously my grip was not the same as with the other knives. These are 10" and fairly heavy as well as sharp but they were flying and giving me 20-25 feet which is further than I usually get from smaller knives. I hadn't even noticed it but was using my forefinger on the rear or the handle tang as usual and thumb and second finger pinching the handle further back than I usually hold. For me the combination puts the knife further forward and gives me a bit more throwing leverage, the knife comes out perhaps a bit more angled up but because my forefinger is curved over onto the top of the blade tang I seem to have greater control on release and can more easily drop that point into position at various longer ranges. At under 12 feet they fly almost straight and hit hard and deep that way.. I don't know how my hands figured this out and started doing this on their own but it seems to give me much greater controllable range with smaller knives. I took my smallest, lightest cheap, Chinese made knives out after realizing this and using the same throwing hold was sticking them at 15 to 20 feet. Tomorrow I'll take out the big 14" bruisers and see if this hold works for me. Anyway, it is something to try for extending the range.
 
1/4 spin is the goofiest term I have ever heard of. The knife DOES NOT rotate. That is why we call it NO spin. You are holding the knife and throwing it in an effort to retard the rotation so that it does not rotate. Why not call it 1/8th spin or 1/16th spin???
 
i agree, i love how the no spin and 1/4 spin are able to be applied to any object with a point, literally anything... the more you practice with odd things the better youll be able increase your distance with knives youre more comfortable doing any combat throw.. seems how the guy who wrote the book that taught me just gave the technical advice for the release id only add that the no spin throw (overhand), is best used for the long distance throw when the footwork is applied with all arm, hand, release type motions... for me i learned not to take a real step but to do a short shuffle step with my throw side foot sliding up and the opposite foot in front of it doing a tiny step... i hope that makes sense because when i teach people how to throw this way the foot work is part of how they remember to time the arm motions usually in their first few times trying this style..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top