Incredible No-Knife Stories

[Cougar Allen]

Reading James Y's post about the construction workers with no knife reminds me of a story a doctor told me. Two bird hunters came in to his office supporting a third hunter who'd been bitten by a rattlesnake. In those days it was still a common belief that you should cut an X over the bite and try to suck out the venom (no longer considered good first aid practice) -- but not one of the three had a knife to make the incision with!

They had shotguns, they even remembered to bring ammunition, but not one brought a knife.... The doctor told me that and shook his head and said, "I guess they didn't expect to get much!"

-Cougar Allen :{)


[This message has been edited by Cougar Allen (edited 29 November 1999).]

 

[Jeff Clark]

My uncle had a story about a guy who was bitten by a rattler while out shooting with his .22. He didn't have a knife so he shot across the top of the wound with his gun. He gouged the surface of the wound with the bullet as intended, but he also blasted burnt powder and dirt into the wound. This was back in the days before antibiotics. He got blood poisoning and died from the infected wound.

 

[Scarman]

Even before I got into knives I carried something sharp on me at all times. Back then it was usually a razor blade or two in a folded card in my wallet. Something someone showed me once.
I also carried a snake bite kit in my back pack whenever I was out and about in Carson City back country.

------------------
The bible is not such a book a man would write if he could, or could write if he would.

*Lewis S. Chafer

2 Tim 3:16

 

[jbroome]

An ex-FBI agent told me a story about his lack of a knife, and how it bit him in the rear.

He was on the stand and the DA handed him a soil sample that was wrapped in brown paper and fiberglass tape. He didn't have a knife to get into the package and finally got into it using his keys.

The Federal judge told him that no man worth a $#!+ goes anywhere without a knife.

He carries a leatherman and a micra now.

 

[P Diddy]

There was one such story on America's Most Wanted this past Saturday. Not on construction worker on the sight in questiuon had a knife to cut a seatbelt to free a woman from a burning car.
"P"

 

[timdennis]

This is a sad state of affairs and people like us have a LOT of work to do.I mentioned on another post that when my oldest was still in highschool a family friend gave him a SAK classic,the most inoffensive knife I can think of-yet if he carried it to school he risked expulsion and arrest.No wonder people don't carry knives,an entire generation has come up without them.
Ok a couple stories-a while back there was a big underground trolley derailment in Philly with many dead and injured.The paper mentioned a passenger who was also a surgeon amputated anothers limb-but only after trying to locate a knife among hundreds. a paramedic had one but years ago mostly everyone,including the Doc would have had one.
Another one-not so much knife but stupidity and not carrying/using right tool for the job. Lawsuit against Philly LEO for attempting to rescue trapped women in car(from accident).He fires his glock thru the window to shatter it.This causes a fire and the person burns to death.

------------------
Tim

 

[Walt Welch]

Regarding snakebites: the authority on this subject is Findley Russell, MD, PhD, at the University of Arizona. I have had the privilege of hearing him speak on two occasions.

He quoted Charlie Watts (the drummer for the Rolling Stones) who said 'This is my most important first aid equipment.' He then held up his car keys.

If you get bitten by a snake, DON'T do anything to it. No ice, cutting, tourniquets, sucking, alcohol (externally or internally); NOTHING. Just get your butt to an Emergency Dept. Giving the antivenin is no joke. It is an equine (horse) serum, thus will cause an allergic reaction in everyone; this can be serious. Antivenin is given in an ICU setting; the average snake bite envenomation (not all bites are envenomations) takes a dozen or so amps of antivenin.

If your outside pet comes to you with a swollen, tender extremity, it is probably a snake bite. Take your pet to the vet. They use human antivenin. I had a cat who got bitten by a rattlesnake, but he wasn't envenomated enough to need antivenin.

Hope this helps. As always, comments, criticisms and questions are welcomed.

Walt Welch MD, Diplomate, American Board of Emergency Medicine

 

[FullerH]

Back in the '50s, my uncle was working as a lawyer for a pipeline construction outfit in Alasks. He tells a story about a bunch of guys out in a lineshack who, one Friday night, were drinking and playng poker. At one point, one of the guys got up and went out to have a bowel movement. He soon came rushing back, saying that he had been bit by a snake. Sure enough, he had puncture wounds on his butt cheeks. His buddies, all drunk, decided to cut Xs and then had a debate as to who would suck out the venom. Once this was done and the poor SOB was left lying on his stomach with a very slashed tail, the others went to bed. The next morning, they all, but the victim, trooped out to look and saw behind the log that the guy had used a very indignant Canada Goose, who struck at them to protect her nest. That is what is called getting royally goosed!

 

[Steelwolf]

Walt, I'm curious as to why pets are given human antivenin, but humans require equine antivenin. Is it a question of strength?

And I'm also wondering about the proper first aid if medical help is at least a day's walk away?

Thanks

[This message has been edited by Steelwolf (edited 30 November 1999).]

 

[Jeff Clark]

I can't quote Fearless Findley's latest thoughts on rattle snake bite field care, but many times you don't need to do much of anything. An adult rattler is likely to inject a dose of venum sufficient to kill it's normal prey (rabbit size or smaller). So your first order of business is not to mess with the snake and coax it into giving you multiple bites. (You may be in more trouble with the bite from a juvenile snake since it will often blast out its full venum supply in a single bite).

Don't fall off a cliff, don't go running around, if you can wait for some assistance that may be best. Don't cut the wound, but if you have a suction gadget do use it. If you have to lie around and wait for help, don't elevate the wound above your heart. You might want a light tourniquet between the wound and your heart. Don't cut off blood flow with a tight cord, if you tourniquet at all use something broad like a belt or ace bandage. You should still get a pulse on the wound side of the bandage.

Rattlesnake venum is sort of digestive fluid and kills by destroying tissue. If you cut off blood flow you may increase damage to a limb. If the bite is really severe you might want to sacrifice a limb to save your life. I guess that I would use my belt (well actually suspenders) if I was bitten by a juvenile rattler or had multiple bites, otherwise I would try and signal for help, or go to the nearest place to find help.

 

[Clay Kesting]

Here the recommended treatment for snake bite (and we do have one or three rather nasty ones

), is to apply a firm bandage over the site and bandage beyond the site to the extremeties. Then bandage back up the limb to include the joint above. The pressure of the bandage is similar to that applied to a sprained ankle so it can be kept in place until antivenene is available. As Jeff said, the limb should not be elevated but imobilised with a splint or sling. I never go into the bush without a compression bandage (and a knife

), even if I don't have my first-aid kit with me.

------------------
Clay
Sydney, Australia

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow....here it's tomorrow already.




[This message has been edited by Clay Kesting (edited 01 December 1999).]

 

[Jeff Clark]

Please note that Clay is from Australia. They generally recommend a restricted blood flow technique in Australia due to different types of snakes. At least some of their snakes kill by attacking the nervous system. There is less of a trade-off in Australia, so protect your brain, heart, and lungs makes a lot of sense.

My suggestions and some others have focused on North American Rattlesnakes, and probably other pit vipers. I'd use a tourniquet on a coral snake bite, if I had time.

 

[Ewok]

If the Aussie spiders don't get you first.

------------------
Protect your Right to Keep and Bear Arms!

 

[Andre Simpson]

Another Aussie chipping in on snake bites.

I recently compleated a Remote-area first aid course and snake bite was discussed in depth.

Clay is spot on with his treatment, the most important thing though is to remain still.

There are a lot of instances of Aboriginies (and a few of us white fellas

) being bitten by Taipans, King Browns etc who lay down under the nearest tree and remained motionless for 2-3 days, then got up and walked away.

Snake venom tends to move along a limb very slowly, if you remain motionless it gives the bodies own defences (esp. the lymphatic system) time to work.

Again this if for Australia *ONLY*, your mileage may vary.

Ewok: I can live with the spiders, I figure the worst would be the Blue-ringed octopus, this little guy shuts down your breathing within a few minutes, no anti-venine either, you just hope that there is someone nearby who knows mouth-to-mouth and can keep it up unitl the cavalry arrives.


------------------
"Although it is said that faith can move mountains, experience has shown that dynamite works better."

 

[Matt Shade]

This is a little off topic as it doesn't involve needing a knife. But as long as we're telling stories about dumb people going hunting (not a good combo)I have a story I can't rsist telling.
Two guys were out hunting frogs with a .22 they stayed out till dark and on the way home a fuse burned out in their old truck. They didn't have one to replace it with, but one of them, through a stroke of genius decided to try putting a .22 shell in instead. It worked and they were back on their way. Only a few miles down the road the casing gets hot and ignites the primer. BANG the bullet goes off and blows off one of the drivers best men. This just goes to show. If you ever need to replace a fuse, dont use live amunition.

------------------
Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !

 

[James Y]

Sadly, on the local news in my city today, a man who was a professional tree trimmer went up into a palm tree to trim it to solve a neighborhood dispute. What should have been a simple project turned fatal. Somehow the ropes holding him (he was 40 to 50 feet up) began to tighten and constrict him. His wife called the 911 and before the fire truck with a long enough ladder arrived, he had died. The ropes had constricted so hard around his chest he could not breathe.
I can't help but think had he had a knife, or a knife in a position where he could have gotten to it, if he could have cut some of the rope. It may have been a lose-lose situation, though, as he would have risked falling as well.
Jim

 

[Cougar Allen]

I'm afraid that's an urban legend, Matt. Smokeless powder cannot explode unless it's confined. If you set off a loose cartridge it'll develop enough pressure to move the bullet out of the cartridge mouth, and the bullet will have enough velocity to move several inches.

I still wouldn't use cartridges to replace fuses, though. One used car I bought turned out to have half the fuses wrapped in aluminum foil ... there's an idiot story for you.... I replaced them all with fresh fuses and never blew one....

-Cougar Allen :{)

 

[Matt Shade]

I wondered about that when I heard the story, I still think its worth a laugh though.
Its too bad that so many people don't realize the usefullness of a knife. A lot of people say they've got no need for them. But then theres stories like these where the one time you need it definitely would have made it worth your while.

------------------
Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !

 

[Johan]

Okay, this has to be the best story about both a really stupid person, and the lack of a knife. Two summers ago my father fell a whopping 18" and broke his arm on a conrete ledge. 8" spiral fracture of the lower arm requiring a steel rod. He is a retired physcian and felt rather embarrssed at the hospital as everyone him there knew. Naturally they asked how he got such a nasty break. Sheeply he told them it was only a fall of 18" and he felt rather stupid about it. One of the nurses told him not to worry about it, they had a fellow there who was really stupid. This is his story (and it's a real story too, I was there with my father):

This fellow, about 21 or 22 is out with a whipper-snipper trimming the grass around the yard. The line snaps, so he stops the machine and pulls out some more line. Now he doesn't have a knife on him to cut the line, nor does he go in the house or garage for one. Nope, this guy has a better plan. He starts up his pick-up truck, pops the hood, holds the snipper in one hand and TIGHTLY wraps the line around the other. He then thrusts the taut line into the blades of the alternator fan! If you've never looked an an alternator fan the blades are rounded over and curved in; butter is about all they can cut. The end result? One idiot less three fingers. The fan caught the line and pulled his hand in. The worst part about all this is that he didn't realize that snippers have a drop down blade to trim the line automatically. I was going to say that if this guy had a knife he would still have his fingers, but then again he was so stupid I don't think I'd like so see him with a knife! The moral, no matter how stupid you are, someone is worse than you.

------------------
"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n"
John Milton
There are only two types of people; those who understand this, and those who think they do.

 

[Steelwolf]

Thanks guys. So, if I got it right, most North American snakes have digestive type venom, for which the treatment is to maintain blood flow, keep the bitten part lower than the heart, and try and seek help.

For Aussie (which is where I am

West Oz! ) snakes, the venom tends to attack the nervous system and the Lymphatic system is more vulnerable, so a light torniquet is required. And the torniquet is just there to stem the lymphatic system flow, not to slow blood flow.

BTW, I have a story which deals with just whom you should lend your knife to. I go fishing quite often and carry several knives with me for various purposes. I usually carry a pair of sharp scissors on me for cutting bait as well, since the rocks which I fish on are not conducive to using a knife and chopping board. But once, I didn't bring the scissors, since I was in a rush, and was using a whole pilchard on ganged hooks anyway, so I didn't have to cut any bait. But my friend needed to cut some bait, so he asked me for a knife. Knowing how much I treasure my knives, he didn't attempt to cut his bait on the rocks, just in case I decided to retaliate by cutting him with my other knives. What he did do, was put the bait on his thigh...... and slice. Thank God he was wearing jeans. There was a small cut on his jeans where the blade touched, but thankfully his jeans held up and he didn't cut his flesh.

Just another example of how stupidity hits you in the most unexpected places.